The Partner Profit Playbook
A Stage-by-Stage Guide to Revenue-Share Partnerships.
(You sell a partner’s offer to their buyers and share the profit.)
Oct 13, 2026 · @Jodan Guadalupe
This guide turns 20 Beamer and Phoneless Sales Machine calls with Travis Sago into one path of nine stages. Each stage clears one problem before the next one starts, so you always know where you are and what to study next.
The whole game in one line: find a business that already has buyers and a proven offer, propose a small test you fund, sell their offer to their buyers through short written conversations (T1, T2, T3), get paid a share after the money lands, then sell more to the same buyers and hand the work to a team.
Stage 0 is the starting point for everyone. Stages 5 to 7 loop: every working test teaches you the next T1, and every new offer in Stage 7 runs back through Stage 5.
How to use this guide
- Read Stage 0 first, even if you want tactics. Every later move only makes sense once the money mindset has flipped.
- Find your stage. Use the "Where am I?" table below. Start at the first stage where you can't tick the checkpoint.
- Each stage opens with "Stage at a glance." It's a 3 to 5 minute review. When you come back to a stage you've studied, read only that box.
- Each stage ends with a checkpoint. "Ready for the next stage when..." and "Stuck? Go back to..."
- Fill in the worksheets in this doc. They are the homework from the calls, merged per stage.
Where am I?
| If this is you right now | Start at |
|---|---|
| New to Beamer, or still thinking "how do I make money?" | Stage 0 |
| Ready to look for partners, no shortlist yet | Stage 1 |
| Have a shortlist, no coffee dates yet | Stage 2 |
| Had coffee dates, no test agreed | Stage 3 |
| Test agreed, not sure what the offer really is | Stage 4 |
| Offer is clear, ready to send T1s | Stage 5 |
| Getting T3 replies and "I'm in" but not enough paid | Stage 6 |
| A test is working and the partner asks "what else?" | Stage 7 |
| Several streams working, you're the bottleneck | Stage 8 |
Travis's own poll codes from the Q&A work the same way: JS (just starting) = Stage 0-1, RO (reach-outs, no coffee date) = Stage 2, CD (coffee dates, no partner) = Stage 3, P (have a partner) = Stage 4 onward.
The boxes you'll see
| Label | What it holds | Color on the study page |
|---|---|---|
| AHA | A shift in thinking: "From X to Y," then why it matters | Accent |
| Script | A line Travis actually used, with Why / How / When notes under it | Blue |
| Story | An example from the calls, cut to its point | Purple |
| How it works / Do | Steps, mechanics and what to do | Green |
| Warning / Don't | Mistakes and traps Travis named | Red |
| Remember / Tip | Rules, mindset reminders, tips from the room | Amber |
| Variation | Where two calls teach the same thing differently, and why | Grey |
| Quick recap | A short version of something taught fully in another stage, with a link to it | Grey |
The Why / How / When notes under a script only appear where the call gave a basis for them. Nothing is invented.
Source codes
Every section ends with where it came from, e.g. "(5P §1)". The codes:
| Code | Call | Code | Call |
|---|---|---|---|
| 5P | Pow Wow #1: The 5 Ps of Collecting Money | FUT | Follow-Up Taps (T3 Call #3) |
| FAP | Fast Action Plan | ATR | Advanced Tapping for Rainmakers |
| PPM | Partner Picking Mojo (Pow Wow #2) | ST3 | Social T3 Case Study |
| BQA | Beamer Q&A | MM | Millionaire Math |
| BPW | Beamer Pow Wow (Friday Q&A) | SHC | Second Helping Campaign |
| DPT | Don't Propose a Deal, Propose a Test | OMM | Offer Multiplier Method |
| COA | Cold Outreach & Prospecting AMA | INF | Inflation Is Here, YAY! |
| TP | Trigger Points | KIS | Bonus Call: Keep It Simple, Steer by Data |
| WOW | Wax On Wax Off (T3 Call #1) | BT1 | The Best T1 Ever |
| T3P | The T3 Process (Call #2) | OT | The Offer T |
Homework Travis gives new members (before Stage 1)
(FAP, KIS)
Think Like an Investor (Perspective)
What this stage settles: how you see money, risk and your role. You stop being someone who trades time for pay and start being someone who places assets in other people's flow and collects.
Why it comes first: Travis teaches Perspective first because it "jams everybody up." Every later move depends on it. Funding the test, letting the partner name the split, walking away from a bad deal, refusing a retainer: each one feels wrong with an employee mindset and obvious with an investor's.
Prerequisites: none. This is the starting line.
Come back to this stage when: a test flops and you want to hide, you catch yourself convincing or chasing, you're about to take a retainer or a boring deal "because it pays," or the what-ifs stop you from reaching out.
0.0Stage at a glance
The seven shifts of this stage
- From earning money to collecting money.
- From focusing on the money (the fruit) to focusing on the assets (the roots).
- From a win/loss record to flipping the coin: small downside, big upside, as many times as you can.
- From selling yourself to being the chooser.
- From getting paid for copy to getting paid for sales.
- From spending energy freely to guarding it: Marilyn Monroe money, only the 8s, 9s and 10s.
- From studying to doing: "put fanny on bike seat."
The map you'll use in every stage
- 60 / 30 / 10: the list is about 60% of your result, the offer about 30%, the copy about 10%.
- The 5 Ps: People (the parade), Product, Process (T1, T2, T3), Perspective, Practice.
- The golf course: marketing is pre-selling (the drive). Selling is the tap at the hole. The better the pre-selling, the less selling you need.
One-line rules
- "We get paid to make sales, not to write copy."
- "I'm an investor. I'm not a savior."
- "Flip the coin." Don't keep a win-loss record.
- "Money is the fruit. Focus on the roots."
- "The person that takes on the risk gets to make all the rules."
- "Let the market write your marketing."
- "You don't have to be good. Be yourself and tell the truth."
- "You can't learn to ride a bike from a book."
0.1AHAFrom EARNING money to COLLECTING money
Why it matters Earning means trading your own time and energy for pay, and time and energy run out. Collecting means putting an asset into someone else's flow and letting it pay you. An asset can be copied and placed in many flows, so your income stops being capped by your hours.
Travis says there's nothing wrong with earning. He grew up blue-collar himself. The point is to see the default so you can choose differently.
| Earning (employee / blue-collar mindset) | Collecting (investor mindset) |
|---|---|
| Paid for your own time and energy | Paid by an asset doing the work |
| Counts wins and losses | Counts flips: small downside, big upside |
| Retainers and deliverables | Revenue share on sales |
| "Danny DeVito dollars" (lots of energy) | "Marilyn Monroe money" (little energy) |
| Traditional assets you must buy (real estate, stocks, bonds) | Non-traditional assets you build (marketing IP: your T1s and T3s) |
How it works The partner's list, traffic and buyers are a river. Your T1 is a turbine you put in it. The river does the work, and tapping it takes nothing away from the river.
Script "Most of us have come up with an employee mindset where, if we use our own energy or our own time, we expect to get paid for that energy and that time. This is what we call earning money. And there's nothing wrong with it."
- Whynames the default so you can see it, without putting anyone down.
- Whenthe opening of the perspective shift, before any tactics.
Script "Wealthy people collect rent, they collect dividends, they collect royalties, they collect commissions. But they collect. In order to collect, you have to have an asset out there doing the work for you."
- Whysets up marketing IP as the asset. "It's just like a rent house. But unlike a rent house, you can copy and paste that damn thing without incurring another mortgage and without incurring property management fees."
- How"I have Google Docs that I've written... that bring in six figures a year for me." He didn't write them in one sitting. The market wrote them over time.
Script "An asset needs to have circulation. If you want to collect money, the asset has to have circulation."
- Whya coin in a drawer may go up or down in value, but it pays no cash flow. A T3 sitting in your drive pays nothing until it's in a partner's flow.
Script "Let's say we own an energy company. We want to put a turbine out there in the flow. Let the river do the work. Now, what's cool about this is it doesn't take anything away from the river."
- Whythe partner's buyers are the river; your T1 is the turbine.
Script "I would rather have a Google doc as an asset than a rental house."
- Whyhis rental cost about $118K and rents for about $800 a month. A free Google Doc with traffic can be a $10,000-a-month asset.
Script "Assets can only do one of two things. They can either be sitting there in a pool, or they can be flowing. If they're providing the flow, guess who doesn't have to provide that energy? We don't."
- Howput your T1 in their autoresponder, or in the letter that ships with their book. Write it once, and it keeps bringing hand raisers to your tappers.
- Whenlook for partners already doing book funnels or buying ads. A thousand books a day is flow.
Story · The pallet guy He picks up pallets free from one place and sells them for $8 to $20 each down the road. No product cost. His only work is the process of moving them.
Story · AT&T dividends At a dividend of about 6%, $120K a year of living costs needs about $2 million of stock. That's why chasing traditional assets keeps you earning.
Story · Travis's land business He buys land people don't want (inherited, remote, a tax bill every year) for 25 to 30 cents on the dollar, e.g. $25K for 5 acres, and sells it for $70-80K. The real business is the buyers list, since buyers of one parcel usually own several.
Warning Don't sit on the sidelines "until I'm not so sucky." More copy books and courses won't change how the coin lands.
(5P §1, BQA §01, FAP §1)
0.2AHAFrom chasing the MONEY to building the ASSETS
Why it matters When you fixate on the money or the percentage, you make employee decisions: grab the cash, take the retainer, chase the full price. When you focus on the asset that produces the money, the next decision gets easy, and "we will always have as much fruit as we want."
Travis calls it the focus trifecta: my focus, their focus, and the most useful focus. The most useful focus is almost never the money.
What the asset actually is Not your copy. It's the buyer data the market hands you while their wallets are half out:
- What they're really buying (the top two or three criteria, in order).
- What stops them from buying.
- Their current plan, and what they don't like about it.
- The customers themselves, who pay again and again.
Script "Money is the fruit of the tree, and we want to focus on the roots of the tree. If we focus on the assets, we will always have as much fruit as we want."
- WhyHelen asked for the first three things to do "without losing focus on money in the bank." Travis redirects her before answering.
- Whenany time you catch yourself fixating on the money or a percentage.
Script "The real asset is: what are they really, really buying? What are the top two or three criteria they're really buying, and what's the most important order? Then what stops them from buying? What's their current plan, and what don't they like about that?"
- Whythe answer to "what are we actually building?"
- Howyou collect it live from hand raisers (Stage 5).
Script "We want to let the market write our marketing, which is called marketing IP, intellectual property. It is an asset."
Script "The purpose of business is to get customers. Customers are the assets. It's the customers that are going to end up giving us the money."
- Whyresets the goal before any pricing. The money follows the customers.
- Whenas a mindset check before you set any price (it drives the payment-plan math in Stage 7).
Script "The wealthy don't work for money. The wealthy work for assets. The money is a byproduct of the assets."
Script "It's not really a land business. It's a database business just like anything else... Land just happens to be the product."
- Why"Land doesn't pull out a credit card and pay for itself. People do." The method transfers to any market.
How it works · Every business is the same three things A supply of something (product), something done to it (process), and someone it's sold to (people). Nothing says you must own the product or the people. "I'm in the roofing business. No, you're not. You're in the safe, dry home business."
Story · The five-day deadline A woman put out a brand-new offer with a five-day deadline. Ann named the mistake: she didn't give herself time to let the market tell her what they want. With a new offer, the learning is the asset.
Remember · "The 30-year wealth shortcut." Our fastest path to leveraged income is getting control of assets. Travis prefers databases and marketing IP (Google Docs, emails) to land: faster, though they don't last as long.
Warning Don't let a percentage become your focus. It's not the most useful one.
(BQA §01, MM §1, FAP §13, 5P §1)
0.3AHAFrom keeping a WIN/LOSS record to FLIPPING THE COIN
Why it matters You can't control whether a single test works. If every tails result means something about you, you swing between "I'm awesome" and "I suck," and you stop flipping. Investors don't try to win more often. They cap the loss, make the win huge, then flip as fast as they can.
How it works · the coin-flip math
| Piece | Travis's numbers |
|---|---|
| Cost of one test | About $300-$500 (3 emails plus a T3), or $500-$1,000 and some time using templates |
| A working tap | One email a week at $1,000 a week = $52,000 a year |
| The question | "How many times can we be wrong?" |
| Hit rate once you're good | About 50/50 on tests |
Script "It's like a coin flip game where we say, if it comes up heads I get a thousand bucks. If it comes up tails I get nothing or I lose money. And what we end up trying to do to win this money game is to win more often than we lose."
- Whyshows the trap. You can't control the coin.
- Howhe acted it out with a real coin, playing both the "I'm awesome" streak and the "I suck" streak.
Script "If we don't make it mean something about us when it comes up tails, we're just like, shucks. The game becomes how fast can we flip the coin."
- How"Get yourself a coin, put yourself a card somewhere where you can see it and say, 'Flip the coin.'"
- Whenafter a T1 gets few replies, the moment you want to "lick your wounds."
Script "Employees need a guarantee. They feel like if I've worked, if I've toiled, I have to have a guarantee. That's not the way investors work. Investors say, how do I make it so when I flip a coin, I get maximum upside and minimum downside? Then it's just a matter of flipping this coin as many times as possible."
- Whypeople get crushed when a test doesn't work out ("Now I need three months of therapy because the campaign didn't work").
- Whenbefore every test, and after every one that flops.
Script "What investors want to do is minimize their risk. So if it comes up tails, I only want to lose X amount, but if it comes up heads, I want my payoff to be ginormous... It's like flip the freaking coin as fast as you freaking can."
- Whendeciding how big your first step with any partner should be.
Script "We want to set this up so when it comes up heads, we get paid thousands or tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands, and when it comes up tails, we only lose a little bit. That's how you play the game as investors."
- WhenDebbie thought her second test had failed. Even failed tests often make some money, just not the money you want.
Remember · TIMER Minimize risk on every axis Travis calls TIMER: time, identity, money, energy, reputation. Yours and theirs. (TIMER comes back in full in Stage 4.)
Story · Baseball A .350 batting average means striking out 6.5 times out of 10, and that's the Hall of Fame. Expect about one home run per 10 emails. When you hit one, keep running that angle.
Variation · "50/50" vs "one in ten." BQA says expect about 50/50 once you're good at tests. FAP says expect about one home run per 10 emails. They measure different things: the 50/50 is whole tests with partners; the one-in-ten is single emails or angles inside a campaign. Both say the same thing: misses are normal, so keep flipping.
Warning Win-loss counting is "a poor man's game." Don't make a tails result mean something about you.
(5P §1, DPT §4, BQA §07, KIS §7, FAP §9)
0.4AHAFrom SELLING YOURSELF to BEING THE CHOOSER
Why it matters Copywriters, agency people and "the middle class" come in thinking they have to sell themselves. That stance gets you strung along, vetted, and fought on everything. When you carry the risk and you're rare in your niche, the partner has to qualify for you. "Anytime you feel like you're chasing or convincing, your stance is off."
How it works · the two reasons you get to choose
| Factor | What it means | Where it comes from |
|---|---|---|
| Risk | Whoever carries more risk in a relationship usually chooses. Remove their time, energy and money risk and the choosing shifts to you. | Free marketing, free emails, a free salesperson, free management; paid only after money lands |
| Rarity | "You are now one in a million, not one of a million." | A niche you love, plus a present, persistent pain you solve |
Just being willing to take the risk puts you in roughly the top 10% of the market.
Script "The chooser very often is the person taking on more risk in the relationship."
- Whythis is the psychological reason you get to choose, not a mindset trick.
- Howexplained through dating (women carry more risk, so they choose) and McDonald's (the worker risks time and energy but is easy to replace, so doesn't choose).
Script "We can rely on lots of marketing and reputation building and take years, or we can just reverse the risk and become the chooser."
- Whenwhen you think you need years of authority first.
Script "The person that takes on the risk gets to make all the rules."
- Whyyou don't need a reputation. Freelancers who take no risk end up taking orders.
Script "We're literally the prettiest girls at the prom. So we get our pick, and that's why we have to be so careful who we select."
- Whyimagine 50 people waiting to work with you. That's how it will be. "Getting partners is the easiest part of this business. You won't believe it until you've had to say no a bunch."
Script "I'm an investor. I'm not a savior."
- Whenwhen a list replies angry, or a partner's problems aren't yours to fix.
Script "If I want to buy somebody's land, they don't ask me how many offers I've made before. Because I'm coming with the monies."
- Whyyou're taking all the risk, so your track record matters less than you think. "You don't have to be the next marketing wizard."
Story · The "Do you like me? Yes / No" note As a kid, Travis picked any girlfriend who checked "yes." Most copywriters and agencies pick partners the same way: if they'll write me a check, we're good.
Story · The cash buyer If you want a 3-bed, 2-bath on Cedar Street, you don't take a 2-bed, 1-bath in a bad area just because someone wants to sell it. And nobody asks the buyer for a resume.
Remember · Live like you don't need the money "The more you start living like you don't need the money, the faster you get to that position." Not by buying a Rolls-Royce. By being "super proactive generating possible opportunities, so you can do the picking and the choosing." Saying yes to the wrong person, even when you need the capital, can set you back further.
Remember · We're all 10s "We're all 10s as far as value as a human. Some of us are more skilled than others... But that's our role. That's not our identity." Thinking "my status is a three and theirs is a seven" keeps you working with people you see as lower status.
Warning Being the chooser doesn't mean being a jerk. They have perceptions too. And "I don't need the money" is not an excuse to go passive and then convince whoever shows up.
Quick recap · How to choose well (full version: Stage 1). Bet on the jockey, not the horse. Answer "why them?" before you reach out. Work the numbers backwards from your goal. Say no more than you say yes.
(PPM Part 1, FAP §5, §10, BQA §07, BPW §10, INF §01, ATR §08, KIS §7)
0.5AHAFrom getting paid for COPY to getting paid for SALES
Why it matters Copywriters get priced as copywriters: $100 to $500 per email, or a $50-an-email job. Partners don't care about pretty copy; they care about sales and not looking stupid. When you're paid on sales, you can reuse their material, you're on the same side of the table, and Travis's team makes "tens of thousands per email."
How it works · retainer vs revenue share
| Retainer / fee | Revenue share |
|---|---|
| Pays for your energy and a deliverable, not sales | Pays only when sales land |
| They want the most out of you for the fee; you want to do as little as possible | The faster they grow, the faster you grow |
| You're an expense they can cut | You're a paycheck they protect |
| Easy to replace with a cheaper provider | "Found money" they'd never have had |
Script "We do not get paid to write copy... What do our partners care about? Pretty copy or sales? I always tell them, if you want pretty copy, I'm not your dude."
- Howhe asks partners, "Is it okay if I use your copy? Your YouTube videos?" One partner's emails get turned into direct mail.
- Whenin the first partner conversations. Pitch it as "I'm going to bring a virtual sales team to you," not as copywriting.
Script "The second we take a retainer agreement, we're both at odds with each other."
- Whythey want the most out of you for the fee; you want another client and to do as little as possible.
Script "All we're doing is engineering profit situations for people. Most of us have been taught to be a cog in a wheel and do all the work, rather than be the engineer of a profit situation."
- Whythe core identity shift. Remove their effort and their risk, and "everything is open to you."
Script "If we're willing to shoulder the risk, we get the deal done much easier and we get paid much higher."
Script "I don't get paid for pretty writing. I get paid to put people in the Mike Newton 2000 program... If you want somebody that knows the ins and outs of NLP and how to write an amazing big idea, I'm not your dude. Totally not your huckleberry for that."
- Whenif a partner asks about your copywriting experience. Reframe: you're the investor putting the team together.
Story · The magic pen "This pen costs $100. Any check you write with it clears." Nobody pays. But: "Don't take my word for it. I'll ship it to you. Once you see the money in your account, write me a check for $100K." They'd do that all day. Same psychology as a funded test.
Story · Door-to-door Travis had no copywriting training. He learned through door-to-door sales and cold calling: "If I didn't sell something, I didn't eat." The best way to learn copy is to be responsible for the sales yourself. "You can write like a third grader and you'll be able to convert people."
Variation · "Not against retainers" vs "makes no sense." In 5P Travis says he's not fully against retainers ("it's good to eat") but prefers partnership and autonomy. In FAP he says taking retainers or getting paid on ad spend "makes no f*cking sense to me whatsoever." The first is about your income while you start; the second is about how he structures his own Beamer deals. The direction is the same: move toward revenue share.
Remember · Producer, not creator "When we stop needing to be the creator of all the assets and value and step into a producer role, our money mojo goes out the roof." (More in Stage 8.)
(5P §1-2, DPT §4, BPW §11, FAP §8, §10, BQA §03, T3P §11)
0.6AHAFrom spending ENERGY freely to GUARDING it
Why it matters Most of us "spend our energy willy-nilly and clutch the money." But money can be made again; time and energy can't. Travis calls Mojo "energy management." Judge every dollar by the energy it costs, not the amount, and only say yes to the 8s, 9s and 10s.
How it works · two kinds of dollars
| Danny DeVito dollars | Marilyn Monroe money |
|---|---|
| Crumpled dollars that take all your time and energy | Comes in largely without them |
| "Their pie": money already spoken for (ads, staff, taxes) | "Found money": pure bottom line they'd never have had |
| Deals you take because you need them | Deals you choose because they're fun and energy-efficient |
"Not by making others slave away either." Marilyn Monroe money is light for everyone involved.
Script "I would much rather have a dime of Marilyn Monroe money than a dirty old Danny DeVito dollar that I've got to put a lot of energy into, because we're limited by our energy."
Script "We spend our energy willy-nilly and clutch the money. When you die, you're going to have money left over. What I can guarantee nobody will have left over is time and energy."
- WhyTravis's brother-in-law has cancer again and is back in chemo. "Life is short."
- Howput a dollar value on an opportunity: "If I had to write a check for it (a million, or 20 grand), would I?" He means physics energy (joules, work), not chakra energy.
- Whenchoosing between partners or deciding whether to take a deal.
Script "If you allow 2s and 3s to come in, you're not going to live a 10 life."
- Whywe take the 3s, 4s and 5s because we think they're more plentiful than the 8s and 9s. They're really not.
Script "There's all the 10 opportunities that you want out there, but you can't ever get to them if you're busy doing fives, sixes and sevens."
- WhenCarlos took a deal he found boring because it paid. Travis: upgrade your fun levels. Fun deals get more focus, more breakthroughs, more money.
Script "Most of us revere money and cling to it so tightly that we'll work our bodies to a nub rather than turn loose of some money to gain an asset."
Story · Quitting drinking Travis quit, not because of a big problem. The drinking was a 10, but it made the rest of his days an 8 or 9. Remove it and the rest goes up to 10.
Story · Give me a cell phone Trillions of dollars of transactions are happening all the time. "Take everything away from me. Give me a cell phone. I'm going to be back in business." Once you see that, you choose deals by fun and energy, not by need.
Story · The monkey and the peanut The monkey won't let go of the peanut, so its hand stays stuck in the jar. That's needing the money now.
Remember · Fun is a filter, not a luxury Fun is Travis's number-one partner filter. "Why pick an opportunity that's not fun, when there's a hundred other opportunities out there?"
Remember · Committed, but not serious "You'll never be okay until you're okay with everything" (Michael Singer, The Untethered Soul). Travis didn't get it when he was younger and lived "see obstacle, pound through it," with two packs of cigarettes a day. Feel seriousness contracting you? "Maybe I'm taking sh*t too seriously." Very few decisions screw you forever.
Warning Optimize for energy over money, even when you can see money in a deal. "That's how you'll have all the money you want."
(5P §1, BQA §07, KIS §7, PPM Part 2, FUT §12, BPW §11)
0.7AHAFrom STUDYING to DOING ("put fanny on bike seat")
Why it matters People understand the tactics. What stops them is "what if," and under every what-if is the fear of looking bad. Verified geniuses with 10 years of copywriting "will take until I'm on social security" to get a coffee date because they what-if everything. The fix: you don't have to be good. Be yourself, tell the truth, and stay detached from the deal.
How it works · answer the what-ifs with the truth
| The what-if | The truthful answer Travis uses |
|---|---|
| "What if they ask how many times I've done this?" | Tell them. "I'm a brand new land investor. I hope I don't ask you dumb questions." Or: "This is the first time that I've done this as an investor, where I supply everything. Is that okay with you?" |
| "What if they ask how a campaign usually does?" | "I've run campaigns where we've done half a million dollars... I've also run campaigns we did zero. Your results will probably be somewhere in between there. What I'm proposing, though, is let me take all the risk." |
| "What if they ask about my copywriting?" | "I'm not your dude for that." You're the investor putting the team together. |
| "What if I don't know the answer?" | "I'll know what to do when I get there. And if I don't, I'll just say I don't know the answer to that." |
Script "You don't have to be good. You don't have to be somebody that you're not. Just be who you are."
Script "It's not about being vulnerable. It's about telling the truth. Copywriters will tell you all their copy converts. Here's the truth: they don't know if their copy is going to work or not."
- Whyintegrity. "Look, I don't know if this is going to work or not" is exactly why you run a test.
Script "Even a bad email sent has more of a chance of making money than the world's greatest email that never gets sent."
- Why"white-knuckle writing" and hovering over send help nobody. If a T1 gets no hand raises, send another T1.
Script "There are so many deals out there... If we act like this is the only one, we're not going to make good decisions for us and we're not going to make good decisions for them."
- Whyneediness leads to bad partners and bad terms. "I'd much rather you say no."
Story · The geniuses vs the girl from the Philippines English is her second language and she knew nobody. She asked: what do I need right now? A Zoom call. What do I need for that? Someone with three-plus programs. How do I find them? Google. She set up about five coffee dates in her first week. Another Castle student from the Philippines opened four coffee dates the week after Travis showed her the outreach method: "I never could believe it could be this easy."
Story · His old boss The best programmer in a point-of-sale company. When selling, he'd say, "I don't know how to program. I've got smart people that know how to program." Be the shop owner, not the technician.
Story · "My wife's going to leave me." When someone says it has to work or their life falls apart, Travis says, "I'm probably not the person to help you. It just stresses me out to take that much burden." "It's amazing what the truth will do for you."
Story · Driving in the fog You can't know five steps ahead. The worst thing you can do is stop; you'll get rear-ended.
Remember · Little Travis The voice on your shoulder: "They're all going to laugh at you," "You'll never get past the gatekeeper," "Gmail looks unprofessional." Real Travis asks, "Do we have any data on that?" Those small worries cost millions.
Remember · Keep it simple "As humans, we have a tendency to want to come in and complicate stuff and make work harder." "Everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face": even Travis never trusts his read until he puts it in front of the market.
Tip · Your "negative" can be the positive A Finnish student nervous about his accent with US companies found plenty of big Finnish SaaS firms, where he was "the best thing since sliced bread." Travis has people doing well in Portuguese, Spanish and Finnish, where nobody else is doing this.
Remember "You can't learn to ride a bike by reading a book or watching videos. Put fanny on bike seat," and be okay feeling stupid. He still talks himself into corners and says, "I don't know where I was going with that. Can you help me?"
(FAP §10, BPW §11, DPT §2, FUT §12, KIS §1, §7, COA §04, INF §Mindset, BPW §06)
0.8The map, part 1 · The 5 Ps and 60 / 30 / 10
What it is Every sale, from soap to a 19-module program, runs on the same five Ps. Each later stage of this guide goes deep on one of them.
| P | What it is | The rule to remember | Where it lives in this guide |
|---|---|---|---|
| People / Parade / Partners | The crowd that already buys | Start with customers, not prospects. The list is about 60% of your success. | Stages 1-2 |
| Product | What gets sold (product, program, SaaS, info, service) | Sell the offer they've already sold, not the new one. The offer is about 30%. | Stage 4 |
| Process | T1 hand raiser, T2 qualifier, T3 Google Doc close | Your edge is a simpler, superior process, not your copy (about 10%). | Stages 5-6 |
| Perspective | How you see money | Collect, don't earn. Flip the coin. Small downside, big upside. | Stage 0 (this one) |
| Practice | Doing it | Run tests. Propose a test, not a deal. | Stage 3 |
"We have to have a product. Somebody's got to buy that product. There's a process in between. That's all there is."
AHA · From "I need to be a great copywriter" to "90% is who I send to and what I sell."
Why it matters If 90% of the result is the list and the offer, your experience and copy skill matter far less than who you pick and what you sell. Most people skip the 30% (the offer) and jump to the 10% (the words).
| Share of sales success | Driver | What it means for you | How you check it |
|---|---|---|---|
| About 60% | The list: the people and their relationship with the company or influencer | Pick customer lists that like the partner | Do they reply to a T1 or a survey, in detail and with emotion? |
| About 30% | The offer: the emotional hot button | Pick an offer that has already sold | Do T3 readers buy? If they qualify but don't buy, it's the offer. |
| About 10% | The copy | Clear and simple, so they enjoy it and open the next one | Rarely the problem. "Guys who can barely write" crush it. |
Script "Everybody changes these numbers around, but the idea is understanding the numbers, not getting married to a number."
Script "Just because it's 10% doesn't mean it's not important. Like I'd say, oh, my heart only makes up 10% of my body, so screw it. That wouldn't be very smart."
- Whycopy still matters for clarity. "I'm going to help give you a better sales process" doesn't land. "I'm going to show you how to send one email a week that makes you an extra $1,000 a week" does.
Script "What a lot of copywriters do is they try to skip the offer part and go into their brain and sound cool. And it's a shame, because rain makers are born or they die depending on if they can pull out the emotional hot buttons of that crowd."
Story · Small lists, big money Travis has done a quarter million in sales from lists under a thousand people, and gotten no opens from 100,000-person lists. One member mailed 47,000 prospects and got 200 opens.
Remember · SSP, the simpler, superior process Wealth is often made by changing the process, not the product or the parade. Tapping is one. "Why don't we just ask the market while they have their wallet out, while they're in pain, what they're looking for and what's important to them? Anybody can do that. Almost nobody does."
(5P At a glance, §2-3, PPM Quick review, INF §02, FAP §1, T3P §11)
0.9The map, part 2 · The golf course: pre-selling vs selling
AHA · From "I have to close in one shot" to "I can tap it in as many times as it takes."
Why it matters Everything before the green is pre-selling (marketing, the drive). The green and the hole are selling (the putt, the tap). Marketing is leverageable; a sales call is used once. And nobody says you must sink it in one stroke: you're paid the same for a hole-in-one or a seven-stroke putt, so you can sell bigger tickets.
How it works
- Your audience is a field of golf balls. Your job is to move them onto the green, then tap them into the hole.
- Bigger price = farther from the hole. A $5,000 offer might be a par 5; a $1,000 offer a par 2.
- Most lists already have pent-up demand near the hole. Before you write, ask where the people on your list sit in relation to this offer, and start there.
- The second hole: in mini-golf, the ball drops in and rolls down a pipe right next to the next hole. Your newest buyers are your closest balls (Stage 7).
The further a ball sits from the hole, the more pre-selling it needs. Buyers who just bought sit right beside the next hole.
Script "Understanding the difference between marketing and sales has made me a fortune and made my life so much easier."
Script "Drucker says the purpose of marketing is to make sales superfluous. In Arkansas redneck terms, that just means not necessary."
Script "There's really no rule that says we can't tap this a few times. We get paid the same amount if we get it in on a hole in one or it takes us five times or seven times. Knowing this changes everything, because now we can make this a $5,000 offer."
- Whyremoves the pressure of the one-shot close, which is what keeps people stuck at low prices.
Script "What's the worst thing you can do when a ball is two inches from the hole? Not tap it in. If you swing at it like it's way back there, you're going to knock it way the hell out there."
- Whytreating everyone like a cold prospect blows the sales that were nearly made.
Script "You can't get closer to the hole than somebody who has already been through the hole one time."
How it works · the three messages, in one table (full version: Stage 5)
| Step | Name | Who gets it | Its job | Typical form |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| T1 | Hand raiser | The whole list, group or segment | Get the right people to reply. An invitation, no link. | Email, post, letter, text |
| T2 | Qualifier | Only those who replied | A question or two; find what they're really buying and whether it's the right time | Reply thread, Messenger, text |
| T3 | Close | Only those who qualified | The offer details: price, what happens, when | A short Google Doc (2-3 pages), sometimes a page or a call |
"By the way, when you start talking to businesses, don't talk to them about T1s, T2s, T3s. They don't give a sh*t. Do say: what product would you like to sell more of?"
Story · Them vs us Them: Pat (the prospect) is blindfolded, swinging for a hole-in-one on every ball, with no data on where it lands. When it fails, they decide big-ticket doesn't work and drop the price to $7. Us: we see where each ball sits, and we tap as many times as it takes.
Remember · Opening beats closing "Closing is a great skill. But I think the most lucrative skill, the one that gives you money confidence regardless of what the economy does, is being a good opener. Great closers usually work for even better openers."
(WOW §1-2, 5P §2, FAP §1)
0.10Why now · The hangover
AHA · From "bad news is bad" to "bad news is change, and change opens doors."
Why it matters When ads work and everyone's making money, owners are "in the middle of the party" and ignore you. When sales dip (inflation, price resistance, iOS tracking losses, rising lead costs, grumbling salespeople) they get the hangover and become open to ideas they ignored. And nervous owners won't pay $25K up front on a promise. They want the person who only gets paid when money comes in.
Script "When the economy is on the upswing and all their ads are working, everybody's making all this money. That's the middle of the party. You say, 'Hey, I might be able to show you a little more fun.' 'Ah, I'm good.' But what happens the next morning, when you've got the hangover? You're a little more open to some help then."
- Whenany time there's "bad news on the horizon": inflation, ad platform changes, a slow quarter.
Script "I don't have a tendency to look at things as bad or good. I just look at them as change. I'm like a surfer. I don't worry too much about the waves. I just want to make sure I have the ability to surf whatever wave's coming up."
Script "If you're two weeks behind on payroll, what the hell do you want? Who do you want to work with? Rain makers."
- Whyhe says it happens more in 7-8 figure companies than 6-figure ones.
Warning Don't sell yourself as "resourceful." Owners don't lie in bed at night wishing for a resourceful person. They want sales back.
(INF §01, 5P §3)
0.11Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Helen (BQA) | What are the first three things to get traction without losing focus on money in the bank? | Focus on the assets, not the money. Identify the orchard (start with your own sphere), get coffee dates, offer a test. |
| Debbie (5P) | I'm worried about my lack of experience. | Use the templates and the short T3. Customers plus a proven offer works regardless of your experience. More details means fewer replies. |
| Comment (5P) | How do I avoid analysis paralysis on who to contact? | We hesitate because we feel we're taking. Reach out as a giver, with a mission. Then just flip the coin. |
| Freddy (DPT) | I'm not a top closer or copywriter. Must I upskill or outsource? | Acquire assets with enough margin to bring others in. Better: cheat by starting hot with proven offers, so you don't need superstars. |
| Freddy (DPT) | Isn't building something for an influencer risky for my time? | Yes, so minimize it. He usually knows within 2-3 emails from how people respond. Cap the loss, keep the payoff big. |
| Freddy (DPT) | With so many ideas, how do I stay focused on one deal? | Stay in your wheelhouse, start from your friends list, and open conversations on present pains. |
| Carlos (BQA) | I dabble and take 3s. How do I choose? | Find one partner on the 99-yard line, design a 10 life, and only take 8s to 10s. |
| Carlos (KIS) | Should I take a boring deal because it pays? | Upgrade your fun levels. The 7s keep you from the 10s. |
| Chen (BQA) | Thinking about market size puts me in scarcity and stops my outreach. | Go off data, not thought. Research a short list on Google and Amazon, open personal, and aim for every one to reply. |
| Kar (FAP) | My dad is in real estate. How does this apply? | Every business is a database business. Control an asset, build a buyer database, sell what people are really buying. |
| Marcus (KIS, comment) | (Shared) Replaying the recordings, he now feels "I'm gonna be okay. I can do this." | That's the point of going back to the foundations. |
0.12Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Think like an investor: cap the downside, make the upside huge | Need every test to win |
| Flip the coin again after a tails | Make a tails result mean something about you |
| Focus on the assets: buyer data, customers, marketing IP | Fixate on the money or a percentage |
| Take the risk so you can be the chooser | Take the "service provider underling" stance |
| Get paid on sales | Get paid for copy, retainers or ad spend |
| Judge every dollar by the energy it costs | Take a 3, 5 or 7 because it pays |
| Pick deals that are fun for you | Work in markets that bore you just for the money |
| Tell the truth, including "I'm new" | Pretend to be someone you're not |
| Ask "Do we have any data on that?" | Let little Travis decide |
| Keep it simple and send it | Wait until you're "not so sucky," or hover over send |
| Be kind and set clear agreements | Confuse being nice with being kind, or being the chooser with being a jerk |
Mindset reminders
- "I'm an investor. I'm not a savior."
- "Money is the fruit. The roots are the assets."
- Investors flip coins. Expect about 50/50 on tests once you're good.
- "The person that takes on the risk gets to make all the rules."
- You only need three to five partners.
- Think two moves ahead. "You can beat the most advanced checkers players with the most rudimentary chess skills." "If you can think three products ahead or a year ahead, holy cr*p."
- Have fun and be yourself. You're building a partnership, not saving a deal.
0.13Worksheet · My investor mindset
1. Where am I today? Circle one: JS (just starting) / RO (reach-outs, no coffee date) / CD (coffee dates, no partner) / P (have a partner).
2. Energy ledger: what I do now
| Income source or task | $ per month | Hours per month | Danny DeVito or Marilyn Monroe? | Fun (1-10) | Keep / hand off / drop |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3. Coin-flip math for my first test
| Item | My number |
|---|---|
| What one test costs me (money + hours) | |
| If heads: dollars per week from one email a week | |
| If heads: dollars per year | |
| How many tails I can afford before one heads pays for all of them |
4. My 10 filter
| A deal is a 10 for me when... | A deal is a no for me when... |
|---|---|
5. Little Travis log
| The worry | Do I have data on it? | What I'll do anyway |
|---|---|---|
0.14Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 1 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| A test flopped and you want to hide | 0.3 Flip the coin |
| You're convincing or chasing someone | 0.4 Being the chooser |
| You're about to take a retainer or price by the email | 0.5 Paid for sales |
| You said yes to a deal that bores you | 0.6 Guarding your energy |
| You keep studying instead of sending | 0.7 Studying to doing |
| You think you need to be a better writer | 0.8 The 5 Ps and 60 / 30 / 10 |
Pick the Right Partner (People)
What this stage settles: who you bet on. You end it with a short list of three to five businesses you'd be happy to invest your time, money and energy in, and you can say why for each one.
Why it comes here: the list is about 60% of your result, and most failed deals are partner-picking problems. Travis treats every coffee date as if it cost $10,000. If you reach out before you know why you want this partner, "your outreach and coffee date will both feel it."
Prerequisites from Stage 0:
- The chooser stance (0.4): you carry the risk, so you pick.
- 60 / 30 / 10 (0.8): the list matters more than your copy.
- Energy and fun as filters (0.6).
Come back to this stage when: a list replies angry or silent, a partner fights you on everything, a deal is too small to be worth it, or you notice you're picking whoever says yes.
1.0Stage at a glance
The partner-picking sequence
- Own the chooser stance. You carry the risk and you're "one in a million," so you pick.
- Answer "why them?" Out of a hundred options, why invest your time, money and energy in this one? No answer, no outreach.
- Check the character traits. Fun for you, keeps promises, a difference you can see, positive worldview, abundance, leaves you alone, does what they say on time.
- Work the numbers backwards. Start from your dollar goal and energy goal. Check ticket price, your share, customer count and customer flow.
- Check size and who decides. Sweet spot: about 5-10 people, seven or eight figures, a founder or CEO who still makes the call. Start at the top.
- Look for the found money. Buyers they aren't working, offers sitting on the shelf, people who fall out of their process. Never their front end.
One-line rules
- "Always bet on the jockey, not the horse."
- "Start with buyers, not prospects. Sell more of what they already sell."
- "If you can't sell it to the customers, you are not going to sell it to the prospects."
- "Get used to saying no."
- "If they don't keep their little agreements, they won't keep their big ones."
- "Research four or five partners deeply instead of 50 shallowly."
- "You only need three to five partners."
The training wheels (Travis's default first partner): a seven- or eight-figure company, a buyer list (the bigger the better), three or more products, one main decision maker, a mission you believe in. "Even if you're quote-unquote failing, you're still making money."
Every "no" goes to the same exit: pass kindly and ask for a referral. Only partners who clear all five get a coffee date.
1.1AHAFrom "anyone who'll say yes" to "bet on the JOCKEY"
Why it matters Most copywriters and agencies pick partners the way Travis picked girlfriends as a kid: anyone who checked "yes." That's how you end up with partners who don't deliver, blame the world, and fight you on every percentage. A good jockey makes a good horse win. A bad jockey on a superstar horse doesn't last. So you judge the owner before the offer.
How it works Before you add anyone to your list, answer one question in writing. "Out of all the opportunities out there, why do I want to invest my time, money and energy in this one?" If you can't answer it, "you haven't researched enough and shouldn't reach out yet."
Script "Always bet on the jockey, not on the horse. The product is the horse."
- Whymoves your focus from the product to the person running it.
- Whenbefore you judge any offer, judge the owner.
Script "If you had to spend 10 grand for each coffee date, would you reach out to somebody that you didn't think a long-term future was possible with?"
- Whymost of us were raised to treat our time as worthless and cling to money. The $10K frame flips that and forces real research.
- Whenbefore you add anyone to an outreach list.
Script "Why do I want to invest in them? What are they doing that's different than everybody else? If they're just one of a million, it's going to be hard. If they're one in a million, it's going to be easy."
Script "We'll say no more than we'll say yes, instead of having to beg and hope people say yes to us."
- Whensaid after Marcus's "backwards win": saying yes to nice people with "huge potential" who turned out to be the wrong fit.
How it works · depth beats volume
| Shallow (don't) | Deep (do) |
|---|---|
| A list of 50, or a thousand cold emails with long pitches | Four or five partners, researched properly |
| "Any coach making money" | "Unicorns" with a difference you can draw |
| "I love what you're doing, amazing results" | The one thing that makes them different, by name |
Story · Ann's 40 outreaches Ann had 40 outreaches, 11 coffee dates and no partner, and the good fits ignored her. Travis: stop looking for any coach making money. Look for unicorns with a difference you can draw, and ask about capacity, not sales.
Story · The household names Marcus's team reached out to three or four world-famous authors, expecting nothing. They replied, "We'd like to talk." Big partners are like "10s" nobody approaches. Don't listen to little Travis; ask what the data would say.
Warning "Nice" and "huge potential" don't mean right fit. When Travis breaks his own rules, it's usually because "I really like these guys," and it "almost always kicks me right in the man parts."
(PPM Part 1-2, BPW §01, KIS §1, §4, FAP §5)
1.2The character checks (who they are, before the numbers)
AHA · From judging the list size to judging the PERSON first
Why it matters A partner who doesn't deliver, blames the world, or fights you over every point makes the whole deal harder, and "if you stay in a relationship with those folks long enough, you will be the source of their problems." Most of these checks take a few minutes of Googling and a look at the founder's posts, before any call.
How it works · the eight character checks
| Trait | What to look for | How to check fast |
|---|---|---|
| Do I care about what they do? | It's fun for you; you're "weird" about this market | Your own interests |
| Do they deliver on their promises? | Customers get what they paid for | Google, reviews, ripoff reports, first test email replies |
| How are they doing it differently? | A difference you can see, hear, taste or feel right away | Their site, testimonials; dig out the buried lead |
| How fast can that difference be shown? | Clear benefits, not jargon | How they explain it |
| Positive worldview? | Takes responsibility, doesn't blame outside forces | 5 minutes on the founder's social posts |
| Abundance mindset? | Not fighting for scraps or haggling percentages for no reason | Posts, how they negotiate |
| Will they leave you alone? | Autonomy; they don't need to approve every piece of copy | Ask frankly on the coffee date |
| Do what they say, on time? | Shows up on time, returns the agreement when they said | Zoom punctuality, agreement turnaround |
Script "Why pick an opportunity that's not fun, when there's a hundred other opportunities out there?"
- Whywe're so used to the "check yes or no" habit that we forget we can pick.
- HowTravis only takes money topics (stocks, real estate, marketing, personal finance). He passes on blood-level health data, CBD, roofing, HVAC, weight loss and fear-driven survival offers.
- Whenthe first filter, before research.
Script "How are they doing it differently that can be immediately seen, heard, tasted or felt?"
- Whyhe calls this the missing factor, shared only with paid people. "You're screwed if you can't show they're rare."
- Howoften they "sell in spite of themselves" with the lead buried. Your job is to bring it to the top.
Script "Amazing results doesn't tell me anything. I'm looking for a difference that I can draw out, that would be new and exciting for everybody, and fun for me."
- Howdownload the book on Kindle, read the contents and first chapter, check the About page and website.
Script "If you stay in a relationship with those folks long enough, you will be the source of their problems."
- Howon a tapping call, "I've taken 3,700 courses and they all sucked" plus "they're all fakers" gets "Thank you for reaching out. Don't think I can help you."
Script "It's about the mission and about the income, not about the percentage."
- Whyhis best partners are almost always trying to give him more.
- Howif they haggle for no reason: "I understand you'd like 75% and you think 25% is enough, and for those reasons I'm out." If they have real costs (cost of goods, coaching), he's happy to talk.
Script "Will they leave me the f*ck alone and let me do my thing? Autonomy is one of my highest-level values."
- Howon the coffee date, it's normal to review copy early, "but if you need to be heavily involved forever, it won't work for me. Can we have a frank discussion around that right now?"
How it works · the green and red flags across the calls
| Look for | Avoid |
|---|---|
| Years in business with customers; a book popular 4-5 years ago and still in business | Doing something new every year; "burn and churn" |
| A mission, message or movement you believe in | Refund, chargeback or ripoff-report problems; tricks and gimmicks ("If they're willing to trick these people, they're going to try to trick me") |
| Someone who's been up, got clobbered, been down: a real track record | Fresh first-win partners: Two Comma Club winners, "I made five million last year" ("you can't tell them nothing") |
| Used to working with others; hands over logins | Solopreneurs who won't let anyone in; refusing a login is a deal breaker |
| "Resourceful people have resources": they hand assets over | Scarcity mode: guarding "my precious" cart login, haggling fractions of a percent |
| Successful in spite of themselves: bad copy, still selling | Blaming other gurus. "Guess who's going to be the one that screws them over in three months? Me." |
| Clean first page of Google (five minutes) | "My wife always says no to these kinds of things." ("If your wife doesn't believe in you, why would I believe in you?") |
Story · The 40% angry replies A Beamer student sent the first short RSVP test email to a buyers list. About 40% replied angry that they never got their last order. He got out right away; all he lost was one short email and some tech setup.
Story · The nuclear engineers A 70,000-person list of nuclear engineers is a "run" for most people, and a dream for the one engineer who's into it. Fun is personal.
Story · The casino of life Bet on the player with a big pile of chips who treats the staff well. "Resourceful people have resources, and the reason they have resources is because they have no problem turning those resources over to people." Someone with a 10,000-person customer database and 150,000 prospects hands over the login. Someone who took 10 years to build 5,000 says no, and is probably struggling.
Story · The old man at the town gate Whatever the last town was like, this one will be the same. People who say every past partner was terrible will say it about you.
Tip · Carlos's condition "I don't like it" is not the same as "it doesn't work." Carlos added a condition to his proposals: will you test what I wrote?
Warning Don't think "there's bad stuff, but I could still sell some people." There are a hundred others. And don't judge a worldview on the first five posts; people have bad days.
(PPM Part 2, 5P §3, BPW §01, FAP §5, BQA §02, KIS §4, T3P §11)
1.3AHAFrom "what list size is good?" to "work the NUMBERS BACKWARDS"
Why it matters There's no "right" list size or price. "You can't ask how fast does water roll downhill." Start from your dollar goal and the energy you want to spend, then back into the rest. Anyone can hit a dollar goal by working hard enough; the energy goal keeps it worth it.
How it works · the chain
- Dollar goal per week (Travis's deliberately low bar: one email a week = $1,000 a week).
- Ticket price and your share = what one sale is worth to you.
- Sales needed per week or month.
- Hand raisers needed to get those sales.
- Is the customer list, and the flow of new customers, big enough?
What to collect before the coffee date
| Number | Why it matters |
|---|---|
| Ticket price (or monthly price × average stick time for SaaS) | What one sale is worth |
| Your revenue share | About 50% on ~$2K programs; about 20-30% on $25K offers |
| Customer count | Buyers, not just prospects |
| New customers per month (flow) | Whether there's cash flow after you've worked the list |
| How long they've sold this product | Track record vs burn-and-churn |
| Capacity | Can they deliver if you sell more? |
| Their shopping cart | An expensive one ($1,000+/month, e.g. Infusionsoft for 5 years) hints at a big database |
Worked examples from the calls
| Offer | Your share | You get per sale | What it takes | Fits a list of... |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| $99 product | 50% | About $50 | About 80 sales a month for ~$4K | A big customer database, not 200 customers |
| $2,000 program, 2,000-person customer list | 50% | $1,000 | 5-10 hand raisers a week from one email: plausible | 2,000 customers |
| Same list, goal $10,000/week | 50% | $1,000 | 10 sales a week; may need 2 emails or a resend to unopens | 2,000 customers |
| $25,000 offer | 20% | $5,000 | 1 sale a month = $5K/month | Even a 300-person list |
| $50,000 program | 20% | $10,000 | 1-2 sales a month | Even 200 customers can work |
| $20-$47/month SaaS | About 20% | Small per sale | Reactivate 5% of 100,000 churned = 5,000 paying monthly | A large churn list |
Script "What dollar goal do I want out, and what energy do I want to put into this? Then I work backwards from that."
- Whenbefore the coffee date, using their site and some Googling.
Script "Do you think it's five times harder than selling a $2,000 product? Absolutely not."
- Whya $10,000 product is not five times harder to sell. Sometimes a $25,000 one is easier. The limit is usually whether the customer list supports it.
- Whensizing up a high-ticket offer with a small list.
Script "It's the same amount of work to send an email to 1,000 prospects as to 50,000 buyers. But the money's different."
- Whyaim for a partner worth about $10K a month to you. "I can't generate time or energy." Pick the list that pays the most for the same effort.
Script "They burn them and churn them."
- Whya company selling a new product to a huge prospect list, with nothing before it and nothing after, has no longevity.
- Howask how long they've sold it, what they sold before, what they sell next.
Story · The 70,000-person database Travis is testing a 70,000-person customer list with 500 pieces of direct mail, on a $1,000 product that already crushed it on email. If it works, he gets into their flow of about 10,000 new customers a month.
Warning · Flow, not just the list 5,000 past customers but only 4 new ones a month means your cash flow dries up once the list is worked. Not a no; just know it.
Warning · Don't trust what an owner says about capacity "There's not a roofer alive who'll say he can't take another roofing job." Owners answering their own phone are past capacity even if they say otherwise. One-on-one coaches with no spare hours have a hard limit.
Warning You won't hit the full number on the first test. You're checking whether it's going the right direction.
(PPM Part 3, 5P §3, BQA §02, §09, KIS §1, COA §08)
1.4AHAFrom PROSPECTS to BUYERS (start as close to the hole as you can)
Why it matters A buyer is a golf ball two inches from the next hole; a prospect is 350 yards out. Send a T1 to 10,000 customers instead of 10,000 prospects and you'll "probably make 10 times the money." Customers are also the easiest test: a failure there tells you not to scale. You get paid the same whether you start on the 99-yard line or at your own end zone, so start as close to the goal as you can.
Script "Why, in the love of Marilyn Monroe money, would we want to work with prospects? Why not start with buyers? There's plenty of them out there."
- Howwhen a partner says "we've got a 30,000-person prospect list," ask, "Tell me about your customers." "We've got 5,000." "That's where I'm going to start perking up."
- Whenevery first test. Do prospects later, "out of profit," once customers are buying.
Script "If you can't sell it to the customers, you are not going to sell it to the prospects."
Script "One way to cheat is don't start out cold. Start out as hot as you can. The other one is to sell something that's already sold."
Script "Were they buyers or prospects? ... I'm gonna say never do prospects. The buyers will work a lot better for tests."
- Whensaid to Debbie after her first test, to a prospect list, flopped.
Script "Put a hundred business owners in a room. I would bet a hundred grand that 90 out of 100 don't talk to their previous customers at all."
- Whykills the assumption "they have oranges, so they must already know this." They don't.
How it works · the easiest buyers (RFM) Recency, frequency, monetary value. The easiest buyers bought recently, often and big. Mail the most recent first, then frequent buyers, then by dollar size.
Story · 2,500 letters "So much better to send out 2,500 letters in the mail to buyers and make $142K" selling $20,000 things.
Story · SaaS churn "Every SaaS company has churn. And what is churn? They're buyers that aren't active anymore." Many come back "if you were only to ask them." Cards expire, people get busy.
Remember · "A list is not a lead." A lead is someone who raised their hand. Most businesses never use their own list to fill sales calendars. "There's a difference between list and leads."
Warning Steering toward buyers feels backward, "like learning to stop, drop, and roll" or steering into a skid on ice. And avoid the "dead list": a salted, dead audience you try to bring back, or a list stuck in AWeber for 10 years.
(5P §3, DPT §5, KIS §1, BQA §02, FAP §5, PPM Q&A)
1.5The sweet spot: company size and who decides
AHA · From "small businesses will be easier" to "bigger is easier."
Why it matters Picking the beginner because "it'll be easier" is almost always harder. Bigger companies have bigger profit problems, unused assets, and are used to bringing people on. When their ad costs spike, they face layoffs, so they move fast. A six-figure owner with cash-flow trouble just skips a vacation.
| Company type | What you'll get |
|---|---|
| Solopreneur / "six-figure" (one person + an assistant) | Insecure about outside help, won't share the database; a bad month just means no Maui trip |
| Just getting started | About five times harder, with five times more resistance at every level |
| About 5-10 people, seven to eight figures (sweet spot) | Real profit pressure, unused assets, used to bringing people on, decides fast |
| Mega-corp / multi-location / Fortune 500 | More politics, decisions not made in one place. Run one test at one location or one product line, then roll out |
Script "If you go after somebody who's already running a seven-figure, eight-figure business, they're already used to hiring people. Their profit problems are a lot larger problems."
- Whyin the red, a 7-figure owner may have to let someone go. A 6-figure earner may just skip a vacation. Different urgency.
Script "Start with a seven-figure or eight-figure company that has a customer list with like three-plus products... Even if you're quote-unquote failing, you're still making money."
- Whythese are the training wheels. A first test with a solopreneur, a 10,000-person prospect list and a new offer is "putting your toddler on a motocross bike."
- How"It's not heads you make 50 grand, tails you lose a thousand. It's more like heads you make a hundred, tails you make 10."
Script "I like to start up at the top and get pushed down if that's going to happen."
- Whythe CEO buys in for a different reason than the marketing person. To marketing, you can be more hassle, or make them look bad. Once the CEO buys in, "let me introduce you to my CMO" is easy. Pushing up from sales or HR is not.
- Howif he talks to someone lower, it's only to gather information for the CEO conversation (do you sell by phone? where do applications come from?).
Script "I won't submit a proposal, put my hands together, and pray. I just won't do it."
- Howinstead, show the CEO the upside: 10,000 past customers, a $50,000-a-year mastermind, room for 100 more people = $5 million a year. "Is that enough to run a test?"
- Whenwhen a lower-level contact asks for a proposal.
Story · The stock education company Several departments (options, biotech). Ask which one they want to sell more of, why they aren't (no phone salespeople), and run a test on that one program.
Story · The POS rollout At big corporations, Travis put a POS system in one store first, then rolled it out once it worked.
Variation · "By revenue" vs "by flow." Several calls describe the sweet spot as seven or eight figures. But when Carlos asked about small or local companies, Travis said he doesn't filter by revenue at all: he filters by flow (customers, new customers, RFM). Revenue is a quick proxy; flow is what actually decides whether there's money for you. Brandon's version of the training wheels is seven figures with 2-3 products (entry product, mid-tier coaching, high-level mastermind). Travis's numbers (5-10 people) are loose, not rules.
Remember · Local businesses work too Not Travis's thing (no fun factor for him), but they can work well: long track records, they never contact past customers so you look like magic, and what works in one city copies to the next. A student licenses a martial arts school program city to city; another sells hot tubs through Phoneless.
Warning Overshoot rather than undershoot. "Don't overthink 'no man's land' theories about $2-5M companies. We're not doing consulting... We're just trying to find an asset that's underutilized."
(PPM Part 4, 5P §3, FAP §5, KIS §4, BQA §02, INF §01)
1.6AHAFrom their FRONT END to FOUND MONEY
Why it matters Inside their front end you're eating from a pie already split between ads, staff and taxes, and you're easy to replace. Chen lost a deal three days before launch to a cheaper provider for exactly this reason. Found money is revenue they'd never have had. People cut expenses; they don't turn off paychecks.
How it works · where the found money usually is
| Their situation | The opening |
|---|---|
| Live event sells a $25K mastermind to 20-30% of the room | The 70% who went home without buying |
| Book funnel: 1,000 sales a month, 10% upgrade to $5K | The 900 who didn't upgrade |
| An old product sitting on the shelf | Sell it to the list again (Travis has brought in a quarter to half a million this way) |
| Webinar with 50% show-up | The no-shows (works, but Travis prefers customers) |
| Emailing at 10% open rates | Direct mail to everyone who didn't open |
| Past customers nobody contacts | A thank-you campaign with a special offer |
Script "I never try to replace what they're already doing. I just want to be doing something they're not already doing."
- Whyif you compete with their sales team, you have to prove you're better. Anthony's prospect said "we're too mature for this" because it sounded like competition.
Script "Successful people can only do three. There's 998 other things that they can do to become super successful."
- Howlook for the one thing they know would make money but can't get to: follow-up, upsells, a Sunday email, direct mail.
Story · The boom truck The orchard's fruit is picked up to 8 feet, but the tops are full. The owner has no boom truck ("those things are like 150 grand"). You bring one in for half of what you pick. He doesn't care where your truck came from. That's the situation you're looking for.
Story · "What are you doing with it now?" "We did two webinars last year and sold a quarter million dollars' worth of product." "What are you doing with it now?" "Nothing." "Those are my favorite." They're bored with it, but they've probably sold it to about 2% of their list.
Warning Don't sell their live event ("the second you sell one, they're on the hook"), don't help them create a brand-new program ("turn our oranges into tangelos"), and don't become their email guy.
Quick recap · Where to tap in (full version: Stage 3, "What to sell first and where to tap in"). The exact same thing they sold before, then the same thing repositioned, then something very similar. Look for past customers, no-shows, people who didn't buy after the call or event, and ignored DMs.
(INF §07, BQA §08, KIS §4, 5P §4, FAP §5)
1.7Research toolkit, part A · Find and qualify a partner (about 15 minutes each)
This is the first half of the partner research process. Part A answers "is this business worth a coffee date?" Part B (Stage 2) finds the personal details and the hot button you'll open with.
Why it matters "About 15 minutes of research, not three hours." Five minutes in the right places tells you more than an hour of guessing. And "I can blow them away in like five minutes of research sometimes, because nobody hardly does that."
Step 1 · Build the starting list (where partners come from)
| Source | How Travis uses it |
|---|---|
| Your own sphere: past clients, especially recent results ("the gold in your backyard") | "Do you know anybody that could use more sales of whatever it is, and would be happy to pay for them after the sales came in?" Don't be surprised if they say "Yeah, me." |
| Your friends list, old emails, circle of influence | Cobble together a starter list of 25-50 people in a niche you enjoy |
| Your bookshelf (non-fiction, besides marketing) | Authors whose philosophy you align with. That's where you know more than Travis ever will, and where it's fun. |
| People you already follow or chat with | Lowest-friction starting point |
| Google "courses for..." | Let autocomplete give ideas: courses for a, ab, b, beekeepers... |
| YouTube | He found someone selling six figures a year with a caramel apple course. Couch flippers and pallet flippers have big followings. |
| Amazon and LinkedIn | Authors, rankings, reviews, team sizes |
| Lists you can Google | A Castle member in Finland Googled the top software companies in Finland and found a list with their sales |
Step 2 · Size them up (5-10 minutes)
| Look at | What it tells you |
|---|---|
| Products page | A suite of products (three or more; entry, mid-tier coaching, high-level mastermind) = upside |
| About page | Years in business ("teaching leadership since the 1990s"), awards, what they're proud of |
| Their shopping cart | A paid, expensive cart (e.g. Infusionsoft for five years) = real volume. Free tools usually mean not a fit. |
| Team size, Facebook page | Whether they're in the 5-10 person sweet spot |
| Amazon rank and reviews | Whether the book (and its buyers) is still moving |
| Old products sitting on the shelf | Evergreen offers to bring back |
Step 3 · Check character (about 5 minutes)
- Google their name: a clean first page? Ripoff reports mean no-go.
- Read the founder's last posts: positive worldview or blaming everyone? Abundance or scarcity? (Don't judge on the first five.)
- Find the difference: download the book on Kindle, read the contents and first chapter. Read the testimonials for what buyers actually celebrate.
Step 4 · Rough numbers backwards Estimate the ticket price, likely share, and whether the customer base could carry your goal (1.3). Precise numbers come on the coffee date.
Step 5 · Write the verdict One line each: why them, the present persistent pain you think they have, what makes you "one in a million" for them, and a score from 1 to 10. Only pursue 8 and up.
Script "Are you basing that off thought or off data?"
- Whythe Finland member believed there weren't enough businesses there. Travis made him check. Writing to them in their own language was a natural advantage. They replied: "Come talk to us, please."
Story · Your bookshelf Look at your non-fiction books besides marketing: ballet, running, breathing, meditation, leadership. Travis wouldn't even compete with Debbie for a horse course, because she works with horses.
Tip from Brandon · Ripe orchards Course creators now moving to masterminds (many Sam Ovens students) are "ripe orchards."
Warning "Don't chase money you can see in a complex setup." Adam's financial brokerage had a great audience but no buy-now package. His gut said no, and Travis agreed: "optimize for energy over money." Skip complicated or regulated games (insurance commissions, financial products) and pick "a game you understand, on the 99-yard line."
(BQA §02, §09, FAP §5, DPT action steps, BPW §01, PPM Part 2, KIS §4, COA §04)
1.8Special case · Qualifying a partner for a thank-you campaign
When the plan is a second-helping (thank-you) campaign to new buyers (Stage 7), the partner needs two extra things: daily flow and a proven next thing. "You want a house in good shape where you only add paint and a new door, not foundation work."
| Must have | What "good" looks like |
|---|---|
| Flow | Front-end sales every day: free-plus-shipping, a $47 info product, ClickBank sales of 30-40 a day |
| A next thing | An advanced or faster version of what they bought. Sweet spot $1K-$3K, but $5K or $10K works |
| Proof it sold | It has sold before, even if they sell only a few now |
| Enough volume | At least $5K-$10K a month for you. He likes 50-100 orders a day |
| A reason it's not selling more | No sales team, a salesperson who left, or no time to build new webinars |
Script "Tell me about your flow. Tell me about the next thing that you have for sale."
Script "Have you sold any of it? If they're like, 'No, I haven't sold any of it, it's a brand new thing,' then don't do it. That's probably going to be your biggest thing."
Remember · Be the 10 of hearts The partner already holds the ace, king, queen and jack: flow, a proven offer, buyers. You bring the missing card: a virtual salesperson with a process. Pick partners who are one card away.
(SHC §02, §09)
1.9Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Carlos (5P) | What partners do you look for? | Fun for you, customers for years, resources, an expensive cart, a clean Google page. Work the numbers backward. |
| Nishant (5P) | Who do I start with to get first deals fast? | Seven- and eight-figure companies with a founder-CEO, or one referral partner instead of one-to-one outreach. |
| Debbie (5P) | Top coaches are pitched constantly. Should I target less-known ones? | Go off data, not guesses. Being pitched isn't the problem; asking them to take all the risk is. Leading with what they want, at your risk, is refreshing. |
| David (5P) | Can I find partners through high-ticket sales job listings on Indeed? | Good test. Don't replace their salesperson; offer a complementary "virtual salesperson" who drives leads and fills the holes: no-shows, post-call, post-event buyers. |
| Carlos (FAP) | What about the "no man's land" of $2-5M companies? | Doesn't care. "We're just trying to find an asset that's underutilized... an ace, king, queen, jack, and we bring in the 10." |
| Carlos (FAP) | Should I work with people who have only one product? | Not anymore. With one leveraged hour a day, he'd rather take someone with a big list and 10 products. |
| Carlos (BPW) | Should I augment a contact's single offer? | One-offer businesses usually aren't a fit. Look for a track record and a suite of products. |
| Nan (FAP) | She only has a prospect list and a webinar funnel. | "Shucks, my timing's off." Pass for now; she may refer a friend who fits. |
| Manuel (FAP) | Can I go after people I already follow in health and fitness? | Yes. Start with people you know: "Do you know anybody that has capacity for another $500K-$1M a year?" |
| Chin (BPW) | How do I pre-qualify partners before the call? | A long-running business, a suite of products, a paid shopping cart, a drawable difference, and "am I going to have fun with it?" |
| Carlos (PPM) | Do you work with smaller or local companies? | Not by revenue; by flow (customers, new customers, RFM). Local works and copies city to city; he skips it only for the fun factor. |
| Natalie (PPM) | Is there a Goldilocks company size? | About 5-10 people, seven to eight figures, one main decision maker. Overshoot rather than undershoot. |
| Guru (PPM) | Do other physical traits matter, like an expensive cart or high ticket? | It's about flow, not ticket. Low ticket plus a big list = tap to learn the objections, then a G3 order form with live chat. |
| Perry (PPM) | Do I go to the CEO or the manager? | CEO or founder, and get pushed down. Talk lower only to gather information. No proposals up the ladder. |
| Tom Curtis (BQA) | What partners are best to bring you? | Bigger assets (about $10K a month for you), simple deals, on the 99-yard line, in a game he understands ("football, not squash or cricket"). |
| Tom (BQA) | How do I judge a business's customer base? | Products page, About page, shopping cart, LinkedIn. Look for seasoned businesses. |
| Tom (BQA) | Is coaching enough margin? | Usually, but one-on-one has a capacity limit. |
| Adam (BQA) | Financial brokerage, great list, no buy-now package. Take it? | Your gut is right: say no. Too complex; optimize for energy over money. |
| Kevin (SHC) | How many front-end sales does a partner need? | It depends on your income goal. At least $5K-$10K a month for you; he likes 50-100 orders a day. |
| Carlos (KIS) | Which niches would fit me? | Ones you'd love. Carlos reads sales books, so: help sales trainers, or SaaS companies that sell to salespeople. |
1.10Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Answer "why invest in them?" before outreach | Reach out before you've done the research |
| Research 4-5 partners deeply | Research 50 shallowly or cold email a thousand |
| Bet on the jockey | Pick on list size, price and niche alone |
| Pick markets that are fun for you | Work in markets that bore you just for the money |
| Check the founder's posts for worldview and mindset | Judge on the first five posts alone |
| Work the numbers back from your goal and energy | Ask "what list size is good?" with no goal |
| Check customer flow and track record | Trust a huge prospect list with no product history |
| Start with buyers and past customers | Start with prospects or a dead list |
| Pick seasoned businesses with 3+ products | Chase solopreneurs, first-win "Two Comma Club" partners, or one-offer businesses |
| Start with the CEO or founder | Send a proposal up the ladder and pray |
| Find the found money they ignore | Compete with their front end or their sales team |
| Overshoot on company size | Pick the beginner because it seems easier |
| Say no when it doesn't fit | Fight over percentages or try to convince bad fits |
1.11Worksheet · My partner shortlist
1. My goals
| Item | My answer |
|---|---|
| Dollar goal per week (per partner) | |
| Energy I'll put in (emails per week, hours) | |
| Markets that are fun for me (where I'm "weird") | |
| Markets I'll pass on |
2. Orchard scorecard (score 1-10; only pursue 8+)
| Business | Where I found them | Buyer list / customers | Products (entry / mid / high) | Flow (new customers per month) | Found money I see | Fun for me | Score |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3. Why this partner? (one copy per partner)
| Question | Answer |
|---|---|
| Company and founder / CEO | |
| Out of a hundred options, why invest my time, money and energy here? | |
| What present, persistent pain do they have? | |
| What makes them different (seen, heard, tasted, felt)? | |
| What makes me one in a million for them? |
4. Character checks
| Trait | Evidence | Pass? |
|---|---|---|
| Do I care about what they do? | ||
| Do they deliver on their promises? (Google, reviews, ripoff reports) | ||
| How are they different? How fast can it be shown? | ||
| Positive worldview (founder's posts)? | ||
| Abundance mindset? | ||
| Will they leave me alone? | ||
| Do they do what they say, on time? |
5. Numbers backwards
| Number | Value |
|---|---|
| Ticket price (or monthly × stick time) | |
| Expected share | |
| My take per sale | |
| Sales needed per week to hit my goal | |
| Customer count | |
| New customers per month | |
| How long they've sold this product | |
| Capacity to deliver more | |
| Does it make sense for a test? |
1.12Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 2 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| Your list has 30 names and none feel special | 1.1 Bet on the jockey |
| You picked a partner who bores you or fights you | 1.2 Character checks, 0.6 Energy |
| You can't tell if a partner is big enough | 1.3 Numbers backwards |
| Your test list is all prospects | 1.4 Buyers before prospects |
| You're talking to the marketing manager | 1.5 Who decides |
| You'd be competing with their sales team | 1.6 Found money |
Open the Door: Outreach to Coffee Date
What this stage settles: getting a real conversation with the partner you picked, and leaving the coffee date knowing what they want, how big the gap is in their own numbers, and what's stopping them.
Why it comes here: "Most deals stall because they're proposed far too soon." Proposing a test to someone you haven't had a real conversation with is "proposing marriage too early." Cold outreach has one job: earn the coffee date. The coffee date has one job: find out if a first date (the test) even makes sense.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 1: a researched shortlist, and a one-line "why them" for each.
- Stage 0.4: the chooser stance. You're interviewing them too.
Come back to this stage when: your messages get crickets, people ask "what are you trying to sell me?", coffee dates end with "let me think about it," or you catch yourself pitching "email marketing."
2.0Stage at a glance
The relationship ladder
| Rung | What it is | What you ask for |
|---|---|---|
| Hello | The first message (this stage) | A reply, then a coffee date |
| Coffee date | A Zoom, call or chat to see if a first date makes sense (this stage) | A test, proposed at the end (Stage 3) |
| First date | The test itself (Stages 3-6) | Sales, and proof they keep agreements |
| Going steady / marriage | The ongoing deal (Stage 7) | More sends, more channels, more offers |
The three keys of the hello
- Give first. Lead with something you give, not something you ask for.
- Hit their hot button. What they think about most, right now, with feeling.
- Make it only for them. If it could be sent to anyone else, it's wrong.
The message sequence (one short message at a time)
- Research one personal point, one business point (the name of their "baby") and one hot button (2.6).
- Open with the personal point. Short, the way you'd talk at a barbecue.
- Follow their reply. Pause. Don't rush to the pitch.
- Move to their baby: "Are you still selling ___?"
- Gauge capacity, or what they'd like to sell more of.
- Hit the hot button in their own words.
- Make the give: "I'd like to see if I could ___ for you."
- Ask: "Would you be open to discussing it?"
Steps 2 to 8 can take several messages or one short volley. The only thing you ask for, at the end, is the coffee date.
The coffee date in five questions
- What do you want to sell more of? How many more could you handle?
- (Do the math out loud.) Is that a now thing or a later thing?
- What would closing that gap mean for the company? For you?
- What are you doing right now to close it?
- What's stopping you? What's not working?
One-line rules
- "Don't propose deals. Propose tests." And not even a test until the coffee date.
- "Give before you ask for anything."
- "If it can be copied and pasted, you're not going to get the response rate."
- Say nothing about your product, your authority or your price before the coffee date.
- "If you lost them, you never had them to begin with."
- "No response is not a no."
- "We're never selling our thing. We have to create an opening."
- "Closers work for the best openers."
2.1AHAFrom PROPOSING A DEAL to just saying HELLO
Why it matters Deals stall when they're proposed before there's any relationship: three parties, slow decisions, no trust, 15-point contracts. When the relationship has a track record, the ask is easy and the wording barely matters. So the first message asks for nothing bigger than a conversation.
Script "Don't propose deals. Because it's almost like proposing marriage too early into the relationship."
- Whenbefore any offer, when you're tempted to send the full agreement.
Script "When everything has gone well in the relationship and there's some track record behind it, you almost can't say the marriage proposal wrong. You could say it completely backwards like Yoda: 'Marry me, you will.'"
- Whywhat happens before the ask matters more than the wording of the ask.
Script "We always start with hello. And then hello goes to what we call a coffee date. A coffee date could be a Zoom meeting, could be a phone call, could even be a chat, but it's a coffee date to find out if it even makes sense to do a first date."
- Whenuse it to check what your message is actually asking for. It should be the coffee date, nothing bigger.
Script "The coffee date and the first date is just as much for us as it is for them... I look at behavior, not what people say."
- Whyyou're screening partners too. A bad partner on a 12-month deal is expensive.
Script "What they didn't understand is I knew what to say next. I knew how to actually have a conversation."
- Whythe magic isn't the opening line; it's carrying a real conversation after it.
- Howtold after young pickup-artist guys at a San Diego convention mocked his "pickup line": "Hello, my name's Travis."
Remember "Our speed to wealth is directly related to how fast we can create, grow and harvest big opportunities." In an earlier AMA, people were skipping the coffee date and first date and jumping straight to going steady.
Warning Cold emailing people straight into a Zoom call is "Hey, you want to make out?" at the club.
(DPT §1, COA §00, §06)
2.2AHAFrom an ASK to a GIVE (key 1)
Why it matters The room gave lots of reasons 100 cold emails don't work: no personalization, bad timing, not aimed at the actual person, imposing your agenda on their life. All partly right. The root cause underneath them is the ask. An ask feels bad to send and bad to receive, so you dread doing it and they reject it. A give is easy to do every day and easy to say yes to. When you give, they stop vetting you. "You almost don't need to have the words to be right if you're giving something."
Script "Most of those scripts are an ask. They're asking something from somebody, and it doesn't make hardly anybody feel good."
Script "Roy, I'm gonna give you a million dollars and you can give it away to people, but they have to meet these three criteria, A, B and C. If you can give it all away, I'm going to give you 20% of it."
- Whyasking your network for a million dollars is miserable. Giving a million away is easy and fun.
Script "My whole philosophy in business is to give before I ask for anything. And this just happens to spill over into prospecting, cold outreach, those kind of things."
Script "Sampling is the oldest method in the universe, and it freaking works."
- Howthe AOL free-month CD; a free Loom critique of someone's ad and offer (which got that person to say "I need to be in your mastermind"). For email marketers: "Let me write some emails for you. Let's see if they make you some sales."
How it works · Travis's give in a Beamer deal He opens with "Can I fill some spots for you?" The real give behind it: he provides the copy, drives the leads, pays the postage, and hires and manages a salesperson. He's paid only after sales land.
Story · The auto detail shop After moving back to Arkansas, Travis and his brother opened a detail shop with no time for the "hope and pray method." He called car dealers from the Yellow Pages and asked for the general manager: "Hey, do you have any dirty cars back there, so dirty that your people don't have time to clean them? Great. I'd like to come down and pick it up for you, and I'll detail it out for you for free." Asked why: "I'm just getting started here in town... If you like it, awesome. Please send me some more business. If you don't, at least you got a cleaner car than when you started." Dealers threw them keys to Cadillacs without asking where the cars were going. Within three or four months they had to move to a bigger place.
Story · Anthony, the broke plumber Living out of his van, he wanted to start a sailing school but had no boat. Walking the marina, he noticed boats in disrepair that never went out. Using the name on the hull: "Do you own the Love Joy? I was just walking by it in the marina. Did you ever take that boat out? Do you know how to sail? What if I taught you to sail and took care of your boat? Would you let me borrow it?" The owners were too busy working to sail. He now runs the largest sailing school, with a fleet. "These principles will always work."
Story · Mary Jo Franklin Chicago, 1960s, newly divorced with kids and about $150. She spent a quarter of her net worth on the train, walked into a charter bus company and asked for whoever hires salespeople. "We don't hire salespeople." She pivoted into their world: "How do you rent buses now?" ("We wait for people to call." "Oh, now it makes sense why there are so many buses out in the parking lot.") She had him list 10 companies he'd love to work with and offered: get three to call, and give me a job. Within a year she brought in more business than they'd had in 10 years.
Warning Don't lead with a fee. Asking $200 up front for the car detail would have triggered price shopping and reference checks ("Who else have you done cars for?"). And giving first doesn't mean working with everyone: "If you give first and you've got the million dollars and they have to meet three criteria, who's doing the choosing? We are."
Remember "What can we give first?" Ask it before writing a single word.
(COA §01, §06A, TP §2)
2.3AHAFrom YOUR SERVICE to THEIR HOT BUTTON (key 2)
Why it matters Your service is not what's on their mind. "Nobody's interested in marketing... We always have a tendency to lead with our hammer." Nobody wants a better hammer; they want what they're building with it. When you hit what they already think about, "almost regardless of what you say, they will reply back." Travis says once you name the trigger point, you can go into almost any industry cold.
How it works · the three filters for a hot button
| Filter | Question to ask | Example |
|---|---|---|
| Mind share | What do they think about many times a day? | Amazon sellers refresh gross sales, units and page ranking all day |
| Relevance and timing | What are they thinking about most right now? | A winery owner thinks about the next tasting more as it approaches |
| Emotional temperature | Does it hurt or excite them, or is it just routine? | "I brush my teeth three times a day. But unless my gums start bleeding or something starts burning, I have no emotional temperature around it." |
Script "We want to start our hello with what they are thinking about most. I call this mind share."
Script "Most business owners don't think about profit very often actually."
- Whybreaks the default opener "Do you need more profit?"
- HowAmazon sellers: "If they're ranked number one, they're eating good. They drop down to position three, oh crap, time to stop the private schools."
Script "Usually there's a mission that they're on primarily. Secondarily they want to look good, and money is tertiary."
- Whyfor partners and audience owners, the hot button may be the mission, not money.
- Howhis "million marriage mission" pitch to relationship-space partners; a financial author who cares more about fighting 401(k) orthodoxy than about the money.
Script "If I wanted to get a captain's attention, and the ship is sinking and there's fires breaking out, there only better be two things I'm talking about: 'Captain, can I help you bail water?' or 'Can I help you put that fire out?'"
- Whyanything else ("a new HR program") gets you thrown off the deck.
- Whentest every opener against it before you send.
Script "If you're trying to get email marketing clients, nobody [bleep] wants email marketing. They don't [bleep] want it. Maybe one in a hundred."
- Howdelivered loud, on purpose, to make it stick.
Story · Curb painting (age 9 or 10) "Sir, would you like me to paint your curb?" Slam. Even the full spiel (best paint, reflective, $10) got "Oh, that's nice, son. I'm not interested." Then a customer, inspecting his finished curb, said: "I bet the pizza man doesn't have any trouble finding me now." Big family, pizza once or twice a week, delivery slow. The new pitch: "Do you order pizza on the weekends? ... You ever wonder why it takes so long for it to get here? ... I just did Mr. Jones's curb... He said the pizza guy finds the street, but can't find his house... Would you like me to do that for you too, so the pizza guy can find you quicker?" Same kid, same paint, same price. "As soon as they say 'How much is it?' I got him."
Story · The winery A woman doing email marketing for everyone got terrible results. She niched to about 400 independent Canadian wineries. A bit better. But a winery owner thinks about email marketing "never." They sell most of their wine through free tastings. Her subject line became simply "Wine tasting." Her opener went from about 1 reply in 50-100 to "almost everybody."
Story · Dean Jackson's birthday parties A postcard company emailed about 3,000 restaurant owners about postcards. Replies: zero. Then one line: "Do you do birthday parties?" Hundreds replied. The follow-up: "I'd like to send some parties your way," then a no-risk test of 100 free birthday postcards.
Warning Don't open with your service category ("email marketing," "Facebook ads"). Don't go too broad either: "Can you tell me about your goals?" is the other failure. And "most people just say, 'Hey, you want more sales?' That's like saying, 'Are you hungry? I've got food.'" If they're vegan and you're selling pork sandwiches, there's a disconnect.
Remember You may not hit the hot button the first time. "You will know it when you hit it, because almost regardless of what you say, they will reply back." This is the one part to play with.
(COA §02, TP §1-2, DPT §6, FUT §11)
2.4AHAFrom a PITCH PARAGRAPH to a CONVERSATION only they could receive (key 3)
Why it matters Nobody talks in a crammed pitch paragraph. In person, you'd never open with "I do email marketing." A message that could only fit this person proves you paid attention, which almost nobody does, and "you want them to feel like a jerk if they don't reply." The biggest mistake Travis sees: "We rush the conversation."
The litmus test: "If it can't be used for anybody on the planet other than this person that you're giving it to, you know you're doing it right."
How it works · rushed vs conversational
| Rushed (weird) | Conversational |
|---|---|
| "Hi Mandy, I know you own a winery up there in Canada and I help wineries get more people to their wine tastings. I really think that you should..." | Subject: Wine tasting. "Hey Mandy, I'm 20 minutes away from your winery down here. I've driven past it many times. Do you do wine tastings?" |
| "Would you like to jump on a call? I'll get my calendar out." | Respond to what they said and ask the next natural question |
| "I love your podcast" (could be pasted to 100 podcasters) | "Hey, I really like chapter 2. You're talking about the McGuffin... Did you come up with that word?" |
| "Hey, do you do decking?" (too general) | Name their type (spa decks, fire-pit decks) or an award |
| Five paragraphs ("upchucking") | One short line per volley |
Travis's estimate of reply odds for the conversational version: "very, very high." An attendee said "near 100%" and he agreed.
Script "If you bumped into this person at the beach and were having some wine or beer with them, is that how you'd really start a conversation with them?"
- Whyhis answer to people who say the approach feels disingenuous.
- Whena self-check on every draft.
Script "Guys know when you just want to make out with them and you skip all that. You're not part of the conversation."
- Howwhen they give you something, tie it in or ask about it. Ron mentions a baby antelope; you ask, "What did you feed it?"
Script "You won't lose them. If you lost them, you never had them to begin with."
- Whypauses feel risky in email or DM, so people cram. Saying more won't save a lost prospect.
Script "I don't want to catfish him."
- Whybe who you are (his "dude" and sandwich jokes are his, not a template). If they don't like it, better to know before the coffee date.
Script "Hey, are you still Roof Sealant 2000 certified?"
- Whya local roofer's site bragged about one certification on every page. One line about the thing they're proudest of got a reply. (The certification name is Travis's stand-in.)
Script "Dude, I just bought three of your books. I read two of them. One's on its way."
- Howhis real opening line to an author, then a genuine question: "How did you ever come up with just sending them a deed?"
Script "Keep it so short it almost seems painful for you."
- Why"You're at a barbecue having a beer. You wouldn't be like, 'Oh hey dude, I see you wrote the book on this and I'm really good at selling digital products and you should really work with me.'" A couple of replies back and forth beats 20 bullet points.
Story · The monkey's fist On Travis's Navy ship, the mooring rope is too thick to throw. So they tie a finger-sized line to it with a weighted knot on the end, the monkey's fist. The crew catches that and pulls the big rope up. "It's the same thing with conversation." You can't throw someone a 30-pound medicine ball.
Story · Mike Long Travis saw a video of the SEO expert in a hot tub with a hip-hop song playing. Both are white guys who love hip-hop. Travis's subject line was a lyric from that song. It started a relationship and years of business together.
Story · Showing you know the market "I really love Jack and Jill's stuff, but they do the big parcels of land. I'm looking for somebody that helps with owner financing on small pieces of land. You've been doing it longer than anybody." Their reaction: "Holy crap, this dude knows the market."
Variation · Slow and personal vs bold Most calls teach the slow, personal opener. But Travis sometimes opens bold: "Ann, why are we not working together yet? We've got to be working together." He reads people well and doesn't mind a no. "There's no one right way. Say what you'd say face to face." The bold version works with people who already know you.
Warning
- Don't copy-paste, even with the first name swapped in. "If it can be copied and pasted, you're not going to get the response rate." If an overseas assistant could copy it, it won't work.
- Don't treat his sample lines as a script. "Don't take this as a script."
- Don't lead with what you want, your credentials or your calendar link.
- Don't lead with "partner." "Nobody wants to partner up with you... but they might want to fill those spots."
- Don't open with "I'm crushing it 10x for your competitor." Research a personal point, a business point and a point about their program instead.
Tip · PM vs email Travis prefers PMs: faster and more conversational, and friending someone isn't hard. Email is slower, but if you volley, they'll often dump everything in one big blurb. For email, "write how you email your mom or friends."
(COA §03, FAP §6, BQA §03, KIS §4, 5P Warnings)
2.5Easy-yes stepping stones (trigger points)
AHA · From asking them to JUMP THE CREEK to laying down STEPPING STONES
Why it matters "Convincing, convincing, convincing, product" asks for the big leap before you've earned a single reply. A simple question they already know the answer to is easy to answer, so people reply, and it shows you're talking about their world. Each step is small enough to take, like a game of catch.
Script "You're on one side of the creek and they're on the other side, and you're asking them to jump all the way across, and they ain't going to do it. But if you put a trigger point stone a couple feet in front of them, they'll take a step."
How it works · the stones
- Stone 1: an easy yes, a question you already know the answer to. ("We already knew the answer... That's not the point.")
- Stone 2: the next easy question, which puts their situation on the table.
- Stone 3: proof from a nearby peer, then a soft ask: "Would you be open to discussing it?"
- The conversation: show how you'd grow what they already have. Never name your tool.
The stones in real sequences
| Market | Stone 1 | Stone 2 | Stone 3 / ask | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Canadian wineries (list of ~400) | "Do you do wine tastings?" | "When's your next wine tasting?" | "I just helped Canadian wineries 50 miles down the road from you get more people at their last wine tasting than they had all year... Would you be open to discussing it?" | About half booked calls. She never said "email marketing." |
| Auto dealers (cold calls) | "Do you guys sell used cars?" | "Do you have any dirty ones, any pigs back there?" (dealer slang) | "I'd like to come down there, pick it up and detail it for you. No charge." | Cadillac keys handed over |
| Restaurants (fax lunch specials) | "Do you do carry out?" | "Could you handle 100 more orders a week?" | "Mike Brady from Brangus had to put in another phone line... Can I stop by for lunch and tell you what we figured out?" | Never said "fax advertising" |
| Microblading shops (member's 2018 client) | "Do you offer microblading?" | "Could you handle like 24 or 25 more appointments this week?" | A conversation, handed to the closers | "Closers work for the best openers" |
| Concrete contractors (Frankie's student) | "Can you guys handle any more of [their big jobs]?" | (Owner: "We have this many crews, but we have capacity.") | "If we helped fill your crews with this high-end work, would you be interested in going over it?" | Yes. Idle crews were the trigger point. |
| Interior designers (Peter, cold email) | "Do you have a Houzz listing?" | "Do you need more traffic to it?" | A T2-style note, then a T3 | A $197/month program from dead-cold emails |
| Local service shop | "Hey Michael, do you have any openings in your shop for next week?" | (If yes:) "Huh. Well, I've got an idea." | The segue into a test |
Script "Can you imagine me knocking on the door? 'Hi, Mr. Anthony. If you're making more than 10,000 a month with your coaching business...'"
- Whythe doorstep test. Read your copy out loud as if at someone's front door. If the door would slam, rewrite it.
Script "Do you have a new course coming out in 2022?"
- Whyhis rewrite of a two-page coaching email. Coaches sell through courses, so the launch is the trigger point. "A yes or a no is great."
- Howsubject line "your course"; that one question as the body. Next stones: "What kind of course is it?" then an invite to pre-sell it.
Variation · "Easy yes" vs "aim for a no." Trigger Points says open with a question they'll answer yes. The T3 Process call teaches reverse questions that aim for a no: "Are you full up? Are you at max capacity for your mastermind?" or for a dentist, "Is your schedule completely booked for implants?" Both do the same job: a simple question about their world, true either way, that puts their pain on the table. Use whichever sounds natural for that market.
Warning In the live exercise the group jumped to "How many people normally show up? Could you handle more?" too early. Travis: "You guys are getting into the convincing mode already." Start with the simplest question. And use their language: ask a hair salon "Are you booked solid through next week?", not about "capacity."
Quick recap · Short beats convincing (full version: Stage 5). "The smaller your list is, the shorter your copy needs to be." A one-line opener that fails tells you exactly what to fix: the trigger point. A two-page email that fails tells you nothing.
(TP §1-4, T3P §1, COA §04, DPT §6)
2.6Research toolkit, part B · Find what you'll open with (5-20 minutes each)
Part A (Stage 1.7) told you the partner is worth a coffee date. Part B finds the details that make your first message impossible to send to anyone else, and the pain you'll open on.
Why it matters "Boring, boring, boring." But "I can blow them away in like five minutes of research sometimes, because nobody hardly does that." The winery story took about 20 minutes (one telling says an hour and a half) and turned 1 reply in 50-100 into almost everybody.
Step 1 · One personal point Something about them as a person.
- Where: Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, podcasts, group Zooms you're both on.
- Examples: Ron just moved and posts antelopes in his yard. A Helsinki prospect covered in candy. Mike Long's hot-tub video with a hip-hop song.
Step 2 · One business point: name their baby The name of their program, product, book or certification.
- Where: their website and products page, their book, the About page (awards, what they're proud of), certifications.
- Examples: Ron's program, Marketing Mercenaries. The roofer's certification. Chapter 2 of their book.
Step 3 · One hot button, in their words What they preach or worry about, or what they think about many times a day.
- Where: their posts and videos (what they preach), industry magazines (what's hot right now), trigger events (ad costs rising, platform bans, webinar no-shows, a downturn).
- Example: Ron preaches getting your money mindset right, "learn how to think, not what to think."
Step 4 · Find the trigger point: how do they make money now? Ask "What's their baby? What are they thinking about multiple times a day?"
- Examples: wineries sell through tastings. Restaurants make 3x the profit on carry-out. Coaches sell through course launches. Interior designers live on their Houzz listing.
- "Whatever they're doing right now, I guarantee they're sick of."
Step 5 · Look for a visible gap or capacity signal Their own words about capacity, a big list they mentioned, a program that isn't full, a past winner they never reran.
- Example: a man mentioned his snail-mail list size on a group Zoom. The opener used his own words (2.7).
Step 6 · Write the five lines Personal opener, transition to their baby, capacity or "sell more of" question, hot button in their words, the give. Then check it against the litmus test.
Where to look, at a glance
| Source | What you take from it |
|---|---|
| Facebook, Instagram, YouTube | Personal point; what they preach (hot button) |
| Website: About page, products page | Their baby; awards and certifications they're proud of |
| Their book (Kindle: contents + first chapter) | Their difference; a specific idea or word to ask about |
| Industry magazines | What's hot in their market right now |
| Google news and their posts | Trigger events: bans, rising costs, launches, moves |
| Group Zooms, comments, threads you share | Things they said in their own words |
Warning "Use their language, not yours." Ask a hair salon "Are you booked solid through next week?", not about "capacity." And if there's no obvious personal or business point (Owen's gyms and salons): "I would go get one."
(COA §04, TP §1-2, BQA §03, 5P §3)
2.7The message sequence, step by step
AHA · From "what's my opening line?" to "what's my next natural question?"
Why it matters The sequence is a conversation, not a script. Each step waits for their reply. You never mention your product, your authority or your price, and you only ask for one thing: a coffee date.
The walkthrough: Ron (Marketing Mercenaries)
| Step | What Travis says | What it does |
|---|---|---|
| 1. Personal opener | "Dude, congrats on the move. Are those antelopes in your pics?" | Personal point. Ron replies: "We get a dozen antelope running through our yard every day." |
| 2. Stay in it | "Wow, what did you feed it? What do antelopes eat?" | Continues the conversation. Pauses on purpose. |
| 3. Transition | "In between unpacking and caring for antelopes... are you still selling Marketing Mercenaries?" | Business point. If no, pivot from there. |
| 4. Capacity | "How many spots can you fill a month with that?" (5 or 10) "Is that still a 5K program?" "So you've got about 50K a month in capacity you could fill if you weren't packing boxes and feeding baby antelopes." | Sizes the upside. Keeps the personal thread. |
| 5. Hot button | "Here's why I'm asking. I think every freelancer and copywriter needs to go through Mercs. There's nothing else like it to get their mind straight and get them to learn how to think rather than what to think. And that beret they get at graduation is so freaking cool." | His own words back to him. The beret line "really opened him up." |
| 6. Give | "If you're not knee-deep in boxes, I'd like to see if I could fill spots for you, and how many." | The give. |
| 7. The ask | "Would you be open to discussing it?" | Asks only for the coffee date. |
| 8. Optional reassurance | "I would 100% fund everything. Not a dime out of your pocket up front. If it worked, you just pay me after the money's in your PayPal or Stripe account. You just deliver the Merc training." | Reminds a skeptic it's a give. Most of the time not needed. |
| 9. Frame the call | "I may not be able to help you fill any spots. But if we could fill them all, we've got $50,000 a month upside there." | The coffee date's purpose: how much of that capacity, if any, can we fill? |
Travis knows Ron, but says it barely matters: everything above was on Ron's public profiles.
Script "If you want to write one line down, this next line is it. This has made me a lot of coffee dates: Would you be open to discussing it?"
- Whylow commitment, and it lets them choose.
- Whenright after the give.
Script "What have I not told this person? Anything about my product, my authority, or how much I'm going to charge."
- Whythose trigger vetting and rejection. They belong on the coffee date or later.
Script "It's not so much about the words as it is the intention."
More openers from the calls, and when each fits
| Situation | Opener | From |
|---|---|---|
| An author you admire | "I've got your book. I read it like the Bible, almost every single day. How did you come up with all those insights? How long did it take you?" Then: "What other programs do you have after they buy the book? I imagine those are full all the time?" "No, actually they're not." | BQA |
| An author, then the funded test | "My favorite distinction is decisions over problems... I bet with all that popularity your programs are full?" If not: propose a funded test | DPT |
| Someone who just mentioned an asset | "Dude, you've got 300,000 past customers. You must have like a million bucks just tied up in your direct mail list. Sure seems to me we should be able to pull some of that out. You want to talk about it?" (one personal fact, one obvious gap, one soft question) | BQA |
| A course creator (short pre-Zoom chat) | "Are you full with this program?" No. "How much would you love it if somebody would fill that program for you, and you just had to pay them after the money came into your Stripe account?" "I'd like that a lot." "Okay. I don't know if I can make it work for you. That's what I do. Would you be open to discussing it?" | BQA |
| After the opener becomes a conversation | "I'm looking to invest in companies that I can believe in... that can bring in 500,000 or a million dollars worth of extra revenue in the year. It looks like that's about where you're at. Would it make sense for us to get together and see if we could do that together?" (sets the investor frame) | FAP |
| People you already know | "Do you know anybody that has enough capacity to put 500,000 or a million dollars a year into their programs without the wheels falling off?" (they often answer "Yeah, me") | FAP |
| Someone you'd love in your one open spot | "I've got an opening in the mastermind. I could make a post and have a lot of conversations, but you're the guy I'd really want in there. Would you be open to having a discussion about it?" | FUT |
| Someone you talked to months ago | "Did you ever get that auto webinar working so you can make your Facebook ads work?" | FUT |
| Someone you think has a big list | "I've totally figured out how to pull big ticket sales out of email lists without phone people or webinars, if they have a list with 2,000 opens or more. Do you know anybody like that?" (qualifications built in; often "Yeah, me") | FUT |
| A cold website | "That's a really cool slogan. Did you come up with that yourself?" | FUT |
| Someone you already know well | "Dude, how come we're not working together yet?" then "Here's who I can help... Is that something you're facing? If not, we probably shouldn't." | FUT |
Script · If they ask "What are you trying to sell me?" "Apologies. The way we work, we find the copy, the salesperson, everything, even the leads, and we never ask you for a dime up front. You only pay after it makes sense."
- Whythey just want to know you won't ask for a $25,000 retainer.
Warning Don't try to have the whole coffee date in the PMs. "Most people talk too long in PMs and it spirals." On Zoom you learn whether they're in scarcity mode, grumpy, or hard to work with. Give no details in chat; do your research in the background.
(COA §04, BQA §03, FAP §6, DPT §6, FUT §11, INF §07)
2.8When they go quiet
AHA · From "they're not interested" to "they're busy."
Why it matters Most people simply get busy. People like talking about their babies. Even a negative reply restarts the conversation, and a rolling conversation gets you to a yes or a no. "I'm okay with a no, and I'm okay with a yes. What I'm not okay with is no response."
How it works
| Situation | What to send |
|---|---|
| Quiet mid-conversation | Ask about their baby, not whether they're still interested |
| Quiet, and you want to make no easy | The "reverse": a joke that makes it okay to say no |
| Quiet after your very first message | It was probably too general (copy-paste-able) or too long. "Pretend the first one never happened" and send something more specific. |
| Simplest version | A reminder with just a smiley face or a funny GIF. "Surprisingly... that's it." |
| Days or weeks later | Swing back around: "Did you like that potato salad as much as I did?" |
Script "If somebody's gone quiet, don't ask them if they're still interested. Ask them something about their baby."
- Howwinery: "Hey, I was thinking about you last night... what wine do you want to sell most of?" Be quick with the second line, or the first one might freak them out.
Script "Almost every business has something with a lot of margin they want to sell more of."
- Howroofers want commercial roofs, not small repair jobs. A dentist doesn't want more teeth cleanings; they want the all-on-4 implants and cosmetic work ($10K to $30K). A barbecue joint wants carry-out and $10K-$30K catering jobs, not more lunch traffic.
Script "Ron, did you get run over by an antelope, a reindeer or something? Or did you decide to put filling up your Mercs on the back burner? Either one's totally okay. I hope you're okay. Let me know if I should call 911."
- Whythe reverse. It makes it okay to say no.
- Whenafter they've gone quiet mid-conversation.
Warning Don't send "Are you still thinking about doing that email thing?" Don't ask them to make a decision in a follow-up. And don't take silence as a no.
(COA §05, FAP §6, BQA §03)
2.9Reaching the decision maker
Why it matters Start at the top and get pushed down (1.5). "It's way better to come from the CEO." Once the CEO buys in, "let me introduce you to my CMO" is easy.
How it works
- Guess the email pattern from employees' addresses on their site. If staff use first initial + last name, the owner probably does too (Travis's example: a Jordan Belfort company).
- Use DMs and LinkedIn.
- Go to the CEO or CFO. The CMO usually sees you as more work. For corporate wellness sold through HR, Travis suggested going top-down via the CFO, who sees the sick-day costs.
- Get past a gatekeeper with a box. He used to mail calculators that rattled. "Almost nobody opens up a box."
- Talk to someone lower only to gather information for the CEO conversation (do you sell by phone? where do applications come from?).
Script "If we don't put this on the calendar, it's never going to get done. Can we get the CMO on Zoom right now?"
- WhyCEOs want someone to take charge and take things off their plate.
- Whenright after the CEO says yes and wants to hand you down, so you don't get lost in the shuffle.
(5P §3, PPM Part 4, FAP §5, COA Q&A)
2.10Other doors: referrals, halos and invites
AHA · From ONE-TO-ONE outreach to ONE-TO-MANY doors
Why it matters "Rather than reaching out one to one to one, go find one referral partner." One person who posts or emails about you brings their endorsement and halo to many leads at once. An influencer's endorsement is "worth 3x to 10x anything you'd do on your own."
Door 1 · Referral partners
Why it works: if your offer is a give, people look like heroes for passing it on. Influencers play the status game and want to look good. They avoid recommending people because of upfront fees: if a referral pays $10K and gets burned, the influencer looks bad. Removing that risk is what nobody else offers.
Script "I'm willing to fund a virtual salesperson, all the leads and all that stuff. They don't even have to pay a $25,000 advance deposit. Do you know anybody who would like that?" Then: "If I crafted some copy for you, would you let them know about it?"
Script "He's normally really busy, and he's not going to charge you a $10,000 or $25,000 deposit. Let him know I sent you, and he'll waive the $5,000 advance fee."
- Whythe endorsement script. It makes the influencer look generous and safe.
Script "I know you wouldn't be sending people to me just for the money. But I like to take care of people who take care of me. I pay 10% of everything I bring in until you've got 10 grand."
- WhyTravis tested $10K, $50K and lifetime; they excited people about the same, and $10K stood out because almost nobody offers it.
- Howset expectations first: "Will you be upset if it just doesn't work out for us?" Add: "There's a lot of people I won't do business with," because you're paid on results.
- Whenmention money after, never as the lead. The best referral partners want to help their audience.
Best referral partners: those who benefit when you win. Facebook ad agencies: their clients blame the leads, so if you pull extra sales from the client's list, the client raises ad spend and the agency looks like the hero. Same in martial arts schools, roofing and financial advisors.
Story · Adam: one reach-out, six coffee dates Each date that wasn't a fit ended with "Do you know anyone similar?" One person referred three.
Story · The long-distance relationship offer In the relationship niche, everyone sold better relationships, dates and sex. Nobody covered "what do I do after a breakup I didn't want?" Influencers had no answer for those emails. "Are any of your people in LDRs? Do they ever break up and email you about it? I've got an offer that might help them. Would you like to look at it?" He offered 75% commission. "They didn't know who the f*** I was."
Door 2 · Borrowed halos (naturally occurring economic relationships)
Find who already has your audience and benefits when that audience does better: an association, an accreditation body, a broker. Ask what their people complain about, then offer a free class.
Story · The auto dealer reputation consultant She was cold calling dealers one by one. Then she went to the local auto dealers association and asked: do your dealers complain about bad reviews? "All the time." She ran free webinars on handling bad reviews; the association promoted them; 30-40 dealers showed up per webinar. At the end: "If you'd prefer, I'm happy to handle this for you." She crushed it.
How it works · Mandy's resilience coaching Don't say "resilience." Use their complaint: agents are swamped and worn out. "I'd like to put on a little class to help your folks handle all this deal flow. Do you think they'd like that?" If it works, make it monthly, "like a magazine."
Door 3 · Invites instead of pitches (for building your own pool of prospects)
Script "Damian, Frankie and Cole are going to the new steakhouse Friday. They just flew in some Japanese Wagyu... Are you free on Friday? Can you come with us?"
- Why: an invite happens whether they come or not. Compare the sales letter: "Are you frustrated with not having anybody to eat dinner with?"
- Crockpot groups: put cold contacts into a Facebook group and let other members warm them up. Then start chats: "Good to have you here. Where's your lawn business at?" A client invited SaaS founders (found on a directory, worked by a VA) to a founders' group; it became about 20,000+ members.
- Cold-to-group opener (Chris's version, approved): "We noticed there's a problem in our industry with getting leads for roofers. We started a Facebook group so we can all collaborate on it. Would you be interested?"
- Stack the assets (roofers): a free report by text (their number), then the group link (a member), then "Can I grab your email for other goodies?" (their email).
- A tiny market you can buy: about 11,000 martial arts schools. A student bought the list and mailed a very personal letter: "You don't know me, but I run a martial arts school in Texas... I put a little group together. If you'd like to join, just text me." Her program is $18,000.
Warning Some older markets don't use Facebook; offer a newsletter or report instead. Don't run ad campaigns over and over at a tiny market you could simply buy as a list. And don't bring up money too soon with referral partners.
(5P §3, COA §06A-B, BPW §10, BQA §03, PPM Part 9, DPT §6-7)
2.11The coffee date: find the opening
AHA · From PITCHING a solution to DIAGNOSING the gap
Why it matters Nobody wants "email marketing" or "a virtual salesperson" out of context. Everybody wants to close a $400,000-a-month gap. The context makes the offer make sense. Owners always say sales are great, so capacity questions get past that and put a number on the table. "We're never selling our thing. We have to create an opening."
The principle: find out what they want and why. Then find out why they don't have it and what they're doing to get it. It runs on principles, not a script: "It's like trying to systematize going from hello to getting lucky with a girl. There ain't no system for it."
How it works · the question flow (an example, not a script; don't shotgun them)
- "What do you guys want to sell more of?" Then "Tell me about that." Get interested in what they do.
- "How many people do you have in it right now?" "How many more could you put in there without the wheels falling off?"
- Do the math out loud: 40 open spots × $25,000 = a million dollars a year.
- "Is this something you want to do now, or is it a later kind of thing?"
- "If we could close some of that gap, what would that mean for the company? For you personally?"
- "How are you trying to fill those spots right now?"
- "What stops you? What's not working?"
- Follow the thread until they name the opening themselves. Look for an idea in what they already have: "Didn't you say you had a $5,000 thing too?"
Script "What do you guys want to sell more of? I don't care if you're talking to a dentist or a coach or a roofer. Every one of these guys has something they want to sell more of. And it's usually not the main thing they're selling."
- Whyit opens on their goals, not your service. A dentist doesn't want more teeth cleanings.
- Whenthe opening question of every coffee date.
Script "Let me get my calculator out. 40 times 25,000 equals... that's a million dollars a year."
- HowTravis plays dumb on purpose, then stays curious instead of pitching. On some deals he brings out a calculator and "bangs on it while they're looking."
Script "That's a $400,000-a-month problem. Is that a back-burner thing for you or a front-burner kind of thing?... With $400,000 a month as the upside, would it make sense for us to have some coffee over Zoom?"
- Whytheir $8,000 program could take 50 more people a month. The question tests whether they really care.
- Howif they won't get on Zoom for $400K a month: "Cool. Come swing by later."
Script "If they say it's a later kind of thing, I'm like, 'Okay, cool. Let me know when it's a now kind of thing.'"
- Whyno chasing. You only work with partners who want it now.
Script "If you're anything like me, there's lots of things we know we could do to close that gap. We just don't have time and energy for it. But if you had the time and energy, what are you doing now? What's not working for you right now?"
- Whyasks what stops them without making them feel like crap.
Script "I see a lot of fruit up there at the top of the trees. What's going on there?" ... "Have you thought about getting a boom truck?" ... "If I brought in a boom truck and we picked all that fruit off for you, would you give me half of what we pick?"
- Whyinvestigate first, and don't make them wrong. You learn what they've already tried before you propose anything.
- Howthen frame the test: "Sometimes my truck can't get through the trees, so I may not be able to do this. Let me go out there two or three times and see how much we can pick."
Script "I'm a crock-pot thinker, not a microwave. Would it be okay with you if I just ask you some questions, figure out your situation, what you want, what's stopping you, and then let me take it back home?"
- Whyyou don't have to invent a solution on the spot. Travis "thinks slow": one or two coffee dates, look at all their stuff, then come back with an offer.
- Whenat the start of the call, if you don't think fast on your feet.
Script "We're just like a mechanic. We don't know what's wrong with the car until we open the hood and do some diagnostics."
- Whyit takes the white-knuckling out. You don't need answers you don't have.
Script "How much will we make? I don't know. I've sent out 3,000 letters and made 150 grand. I've also sent out 5,000 letters and totally crapped the bed. Your results will be somewhere in between. But what I'm proposing is, let me pay for it."
- Whenwhen they ask for a prediction. It says, "Here's a person who's not going to screw me."
Script · Telling people what you do (Ann's question) "Have you ever wanted to make more sales of your coaching program? Wouldn't it be cool if somebody came in, ran the leads, made the sales, without any of your involvement, and you only paid them once the money came in? ... Well, that's what I do."
- Whyconversational, not an elevator pitch, and it doesn't box you into a title.
- Howask what they sell first, then qualify: "How many folks are you working with right now?" Many people are coaches "in name only."
Story · The salespeople opening "Why don't you just hire more salespeople?" "That's a pain in the a**." How do you hire them now? Ads and interviews. How many work out? "We have to hire three to get one good one." "That sounds expensive." Then: "What if I hired and managed a salesperson for you... and ran leads for him?" Now they ask what it costs: "That's not the way I work. I would provide it all."
Story · The buyer list opening 13,000 bought a $500 program; about 1,000 are in the $5,000 program. That's 12,000 people of upside. They mail once a week. Why not more? "We don't know what to say. Our salespeople can't handle the volume." That's the opening.
Story · What comes out Ask what closing the gap would mean and you hear things like "We haven't paid our founders in three months" or "We might have to let people go." Bigger companies often have bigger problems than solopreneurs.
Story · Corvette vs Yugo "I've got a car for 20 grand, do you want it?" means nothing without context. A 2021 Corvette for $20K because he's mad at his ex: "Please, I'll take it." A 1980s Yugo from a shed: "No thanks."
Story · The married couple If his wife smiles and he "jumps on her," she doesn't like it. But making her sit through a webinar and a strategy session would be ridiculous too. There's a happy medium.
Remember · Stay in the chooser seat If they treat you like a hired writer ("How long have you been writing copy?"): "Whoa, maybe I'm not being clear. I'm not in this to write copy for you. I'll find somebody to write the copy. We don't get paid for our fancy words. We get paid to make sales." No past partners? Say it: "It's my first time." (Stage 0.4 and 0.7.)
Warning
- Don't open with "Hey, do you need some email marketing?" They'll say "No, thank you."
- Don't ask "How's sales going?" It always gets "great." Ask about capacity.
- Don't rush to the solution. Make them say the problem. "Everyone can tell when you're just trying to 'get lucky.'"
- Don't show up needy: "Yes, sir. Oh yeah, I'll do that. Anything."
- Don't talk tools and deliverables. "The more you talk about the tools, the more delay you're going to get."
- Don't get stuck on one offer. Once you understand what they want, there may be several ways in.
Quick recap · Closing the coffee date (full version: Stage 3). Say what you see ("Here's what you've got going on... Here's the upside. I'm going to take care of all the downside"), give the honest drawbacks of working with you, propose a small test you fund, and put the next date on the calendar before you hang up.
(FAP §7, BPW §02-03, BQA §03, INF §07, KIS §4, 5P §5)
2.12Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Aon (COA) | What's the give in the Ron example? Isn't he just asking if Ron wants more spots? | The give is filling the program: he funds the mail, writes the copy, drives leads and hires the salesperson. Like the free car detail, he proves it instead of asking up front. |
| Tommy Curtis (COA) | (Shared a win) | Used it on his sister's $3K coaching program: "Have you filled all the spots?" "Not even close." "Would it make sense to chat?" She called his texts "wizardry." He proposed a small test. |
| Daniel (COA) | Does this work for low ticket? Can I automate it? | No. Wrong tool. Use it for big opportunities, or to get a $47 product into someone else's parade. It doesn't automate. |
| Freddy Bennett (COA) | Vets and clinics say "we're at capacity." | If they truly have no capacity, don't get on a coffee date. Ask what they'd like to sell more of: implants, not cleanings; catering, not lunch traffic. Owners answering their own phone are past capacity even if they say otherwise. |
| Freddy Bennett (COA) | A 100K Facebook group: build an email list for them, or bring high-ticket offers? | Find their hot button first, often a mission. Ask what members already ask for and what they recommend unpaid. Propose a test of 3-5 posts, fully provided by you. Start with their own stuff. |
| Owen (COA) | No obvious personal or business point for gyms or salons? | "I would go get one." About pages, awards, the owner's socials, YouTube, books, industry magazines. Use their words: "booked solid," not "capacity." |
| Keith Dingler (COA) | Corporate wellness via HR: I can't find the hot button. | Don't guess from the corner. Interview HR people, even pay them. Maybe go top-down via the CFO, who sees sick-day costs. Offer to share the interviews (a give). Start with clients you've already helped. |
| James Pilman (COA) | Hot buttons for micro-influencers (1K-10K followers)? | Reach and the platform throttling it, plus no email list as a backup asset. |
| Erin (COA) | Real estate follow-up services in Western Australia: how to apply this? | Agents only want listings. Get as close as you can to just bringing listings. Go through the broker; set up JVs on trigger events (movers, cleaners, divorce attorneys). Change the who or when before the what. |
| Cherylyn (COA) | Three or four coffee dates: before or after the test? | Coffee dates with different people, usually one per person. He says no to many, and on a promising one tries to talk them out of it by listing the pain points of working with him. |
| West W (COA) | Prospects talk for five hours. How do I put up rails? | "Here's what I'm understanding about your situation. Here's my situation. What would you like to do?" |
| Dan (FAP) | How do I turn a DM opener into an email? | Write how you email your mom or friends. Short, like a barbecue chat. They'll often unload everything in one blurb. |
| Eric (FAP) | Who am I to reach out to people who don't know me? | Act like a cash buyer looking for a three-bed, two-bath in one school district: "I'm looking for somebody that can handle another 100 or 200 people a year at $5K." Now they qualify for you. |
| Kar (FAP) | Where do I stop the first outreach email? | After the first line ("love your book on..."). Be more specific. Ask about capacity later. Don't ask them to "partner." |
| Marcus (FAP) | My outreach got crickets. How do I follow up? | It was probably too general or too long. Pretend the first one never happened and send something more specific. |
| KH (BQA) | How long should the chat run before Zoom? | Short. Most people talk too long in PMs. Get on Zoom. |
| Tom (BQA) | Opening as a fan feels like catfishing. | It's how you'd talk face to face: personal, then mission, then business. |
| Helen (BQA) | My three warm contacts are further along but not a fit. How do I use them? | Ask for referrals: 10% of what you bring in until they've made $10K. Warn them not every referral will fit. |
| Anthony (BQA) | "We're too mature," and they only offered a paid Facebook group. | Get on Zoom. A paid buyer group makes a great first date. Don't compete with what they already do. |
| Ben (KIS) | I feel like the guy with my hand out. | Reach out to people you believe in. Talk about their mission, barbecue-short. |
| Carlos (5P) | Any tools that help get a foot in the door? | He hasn't needed any. Talk capacity and revenue, not tools. Open on a personal note. |
| Nishant (5P) | Do trigger events make companies say yes? | Yes: COVID, ad costs rising, bans, tactics that stop working. |
| Chin (BPW) | How do I find the back-end opportunity on the call? | Principles, not a system. What do they want to sell more of, capacity, how they fill it now, what's not working. |
| Carlos (BPW) | When should I use reverse referrals? | Anytime. You don't need a reputation if you take the risk. Make the influencer look good. |
| Ann (INF) | Coaches say "I've heard of people doing that" when I explain what I do. | Make it a conversation: "Have you ever wanted to...? Wouldn't it be cool if...? That's what I do." Then qualify. |
| Carlos (INF) | Should I rebrand from "copywriter"? | Only if this is your full-time thing. "Copywriter" boxes you in. Travis calls himself an investor and won't give people a title to attach to. |
| Perry (PPM) | Should I T1 Facebook ad agency owners hit by iOS? | Yes, as referral partners. "Another strategy is selling past buyers and old leads more stuff. Who has time? I know a guy, no retainer, paid only after money hits your Stripe." Mention the 10%-until-$10K fee after, not as the lead. |
2.13Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Decide your give before you write | Open with an ask (a fee, a retainer, a contract) |
| Open with their hot button (tastings, rankings, reach, openings) | Open with your service ("email marketing," "Facebook ads") |
| Research 1 personal, 1 business, 1 hot button point | Copy-paste, even with the first name swapped |
| Name their baby | Say "Do you want more sales?" |
| Write it like a chat at a barbecue | Cram the whole pitch into the first message |
| Ask easy questions they already know the answer to | Ask them to jump the whole creek |
| Pause and respond to what they say | Rush to your objective or calendar link |
| End with "Would you be open to discussing it?" | Mention your product, authority or price before the coffee date |
| Use their words ("booked solid") | Use yours ("capacity") |
| Go to the founder or CEO | Pitch a CMO who can't decide |
| Follow up by asking about their baby | Ask "Are you still interested?" |
| Treat no response as "not yet" | Treat no response as a no |
| Get on Zoom fast | Have the whole coffee date in the PMs |
| Ask about capacity and do the math out loud | Ask "How's sales going?" |
| Make them say the problem; then float an idea | Jump to the solution |
| Find one referral partner or halo | Only ever reach out one to one |
| Be who you are | Catfish them with a persona |
2.14Worksheet · My outreach and coffee date
1. My give
| Prompt | My answer |
|---|---|
| Who I want to work with (partner type) | |
| What they think about many times a day | |
| What I can give first (sample, free test, funded work) | |
| What they'd like to sell more of (high-margin item) | |
| How I take the risk off them | |
| Who already has this audience (association, broker, agency) |
2. Research, part B (1 + 1 + 1 + trigger point)
| Partner | Personal point | Their baby | Hot button (their words) | Trigger point (how they make money now) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
3. My message draft
| Step | My line |
|---|---|
| Personal opener | |
| Follow-up question if they reply | |
| Transition to their baby ("Are you still ___?") | |
| Capacity or "sell more of" question | |
| Hot button, in their words | |
| The give ("I'd like to see if I could ___") | |
| The ask | Would you be open to discussing it? |
| Optional reassurance (no money up front) | |
| Follow-up if they go quiet (about their baby) |
4. Coffee date notes
| Question | Their answer |
|---|---|
| What do you want to sell more of? | |
| How many in it now? How many more without the wheels falling off? | |
| The gap in dollars (open spots × price) | |
| Now or later? | |
| What would closing it mean for the company? For you? | |
| How are you filling those spots now? | |
| What stops you? What's not working? | |
| The opening I heard |
Pre-send checklist
2.15Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 3 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| Your messages get no replies | 2.4 Only for them, 2.6 Research part B |
| Replies, but they ask "what are you selling?" | 2.2 Give first, 2.7 the answer script |
| People say "no thanks" to your idea | 2.3 Hot button (you led with your hammer) |
| You keep writing long pitches | 2.5 Stepping stones |
| They went quiet | 2.8 When they go quiet |
| Coffee dates end in "let me think about it" | 2.11 Diagnose the gap first |
| One-to-one is too slow | 2.10 Referrals and halos |
Propose the Test and Set the Terms (Practice)
What this stage settles: a small, funded first date with the partner, on your terms. You leave with the test agreed, the split agreed, tracking set up, a simple one-page agreement, and dates on the calendar.
Why it comes here: a test is easy to say yes to and easy to exit. But if control, the split, tracking and agreements aren't settled before the first email, even a winning campaign can fail to pay you, and a losing one can drag on for months.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 2: a coffee date where the gap is sized and the partner wants it now.
- Stage 0.3: the coin flip (you're funding something that might not work).
- Stage 0.5: paid for sales, not copy (no retainer).
Come back to this stage when: a partner balks at the split, wants to approve every email, pays late, or a test isn't working and you don't know how to leave.
3.0Stage at a glance
The proposal, in order
- Say what you see. "Here's what you've got going on. Here's where I think we could help. Here's the upside. I'm going to take care of all the downside."
- Propose a test, not a deal. 3-10 emails (or 3-5 posts) to their list, on an offer they've already sold. You fund it.
- Lay out the "pain-in-the-a** stuff" about working with you. 100% control, a login, no boss.
- The percentage last, framed around growing the income stream. Let them name a number.
- Set agreements, not expectations. One-page letter of understanding, tracking, dates on the calendar before you hang up.
- Watch their behavior. Small agreements kept predict big checks paid.
- Run it, read it, then expand or exit cleanly.
The split comes after the test and your terms are agreed, so it reads as a partnership, not a price. Either outcome is fine: a test that doesn't work costs a few emails.
What to sell on a first date (go down only if you must)
- The exact same thing they sold before (reactivation).
- The same thing, repositioned.
- Something very similar.
- A new or bundled offer: only on the "third date."
One-line rules
- "Don't propose deals. Propose tests."
- "On your first date: no new offers."
- "Cap the downside, make the upside huge, then flip the coin as fast as you can."
- "The worst thing I could do to you is take a percentage that's too small... The second worst thing is take a percentage that's too big."
- "Set up agreements, not expectations."
- "We become a paycheck to them rather than an expense."
- "If it doesn't work in five, get out."
3.1AHAFrom proposing a DEAL to proposing a TEST
Why it matters A test is a small trial you fund and run, like a software free trial. You honestly don't know if it will work, and claiming it will is BSing them and yourself. People hate big decisions; a test is a small one. Upside for them and no risk for them makes "yes" easy. If it fails, nobody is mad. And a test opens conversations, because you're giving instead of asking for a payment.
Script "Hey, I'm not sure if it's going to 100% work or not. What I want to do is see if it will work, and I'm willing to take on all the risk of making it work."
- Whyhonesty plus risk-taking builds the trust a stranger hasn't earned yet.
- Whenright after the coffee date shows there's something worth testing.
Script "Can I send five or 10 emails to your list and get the offer dialed in first? Then we're going to know if it's going to work. If that works, then I'm happy to fund the rest of the campaign."
- Whya small, concrete ask is easy to approve. Used instead of asking to mail a 30,000-person direct mail list on day one.
Script "Hey, let's send out three to five emails to your list. Let's get it dialed in, and then we can take it from there."
- Whyit sounds easy, so they usually say, "Oh, that sounds so easy."
Script "Well, I've got a crazy idea. I'll bring in a virtual sales team and I'll drive the leads for them. Why don't we start a test? Why don't we send three or four emails out there? Let me get it dialed in. If it works, we can send one every Sunday and it'll just be a new flow for you. All you'd have to do is deliver your program."
- Whyyou're giving, not asking. "We're the pretty girls at the prom": everyone knows 1,001 things that would grow them, and nobody offers to handle and fund one.
- Howfind the flow point first. If they mail Monday, Wednesday and Friday, Sunday is open.
Script "I don't know if this would work or not, but I'd like to run a test and see if we can fill up some of the capacity in your program. I will fund everything... If it worked, you'd only pay me after the money hit your account. If it doesn't work, it's all on me."
- Whenwith a high-ticket owner, e.g. a three-month program at $30-40K, after complimenting a specific chapter or idea from their book.
Script "The first thing they're going to say is, 'I don't think that'll work.' Cool. Let's just run a test. I will fund it."
- Whydoubt means undervalued, which is what an investor looks for.
Script "Look, Carlos, let's just run a test. I'll drop a couple emails. We'll see what happens and we'll take it from there."
- Whywhen they start asking when emails go out, what they'll say and who does what, the deal grows in their head. "Our job is to shrink it back down."
Script "This is the first time that I've done this as an investor, where I supply everything. Is that okay with you?"
- Whenfor a first-timer. "We don't have to have all the damn answers."
Story · The gold in Arvel's backyard Travis's surveys suggest a vein of gold 150 yards down. Drilling costs about $10K plus permits, and nobody knows if it's there. Instead he offers to fund everything, protect the roses, and split the gold. "All you have to do is cash the check." Most people won't dig their own backyard. If they want to, he steps aside and wishes them luck.
Story · Convincing vs partnering The fee route means convincing an owner there's money in their direct mail list, then convincing them to spend $30K on postage and printing, then charging $10-20K, all on trust you don't have yet. The partner route ("You've got a $5,000 product. Why don't we split it?") makes far more money.
Ideas for a first test
- 5-10 emails, or 3-5 posts in their Facebook group, selling their own proven offer to their own buyers.
- Ask, "What do people ask you for? What do you recommend that you're not getting paid for?" Then set up that affiliate relationship for them.
- A thank-you letter to past customers (reactivation).
- Only later: a spin-off group or list that you build and manage.
Script "It doesn't have to be pretty. We just want to test it."
- Howset up a text service or a fresh Gmail (e.g. their name plus "vip"): "If you're interested, just email me and I'll get you the details."
Variation · "3-5 emails" vs "5-10 emails." BQA, BPW and INF call the test 3-5 emails; DPT, FAP and SHC say 5-10. Travis usually knows within the first 2-3 emails whether the list is responsive. The longer number leaves room to dial in the offer, or to make more money if it's working. Plan 3-5, allow up to 10, and never promise a time period: "You don't know if you'll get 100 replies or 10."
Warning
- Don't pitch a long-term deal first. That's "a big, big mistake."
- Don't pitch "it's going to be awesome" when you don't know.
- Don't spend big (e.g. $30K in postage) before a cheap test proves the offer.
- Don't get stuck figuring out everything first instead of launching the test.
- Agencies ask for 3-, 6- or 12-month contracts on a $5,000 retainer when nobody knows if it will work. "Whoa, let's hold the horses a little bit here."
(DPT §2, 5P §5, BPW §03, FAP §8, INF §06)
3.2What to sell first, and where to tap in
AHA · From their NEW BABY to their OLD WINNER
Why it matters Partners always want to sell new people a new thing. They love their "new baby" more than their "old teenage kid." But a new, untested offer is the biggest way to raise your risk. "Every time that I've had a disaster on my hand, it's because I tried to help somebody with a new offer." Clients panic if sales don't roll in with every email. The money is usually in selling buyers what they already bought.
How it works · the first-date ladder (go down a rung only if you must)
| Rung | What it is | Example |
|---|---|---|
| 1. The exact same thing | Easiest in continuity programs: a reactivation. Most people left because nobody asked them back. | "Hey dude, we miss you over here... So we put together a little special gift if you wanted to come back." |
| 2. The same thing, repositioned | Same product, new angle, new audience | Tickets as cheap family entertainment instead of a winning team |
| 3. Something very similar | Bought virtual, offer live (or the reverse). Bought one, offer a second. | A second GoPro camera, not a stand |
| 4. New or bundled | Only on the "third date," once you know their people | A bundle, a digital class, your own product |
Script "When you first start talking to somebody and you say, 'What would you like to sell more of?', the first place they typically will go is their brand-new offer... Unless you like to eat stress for breakfast, don't do new offers for your first date."
- Howuse the first-date frame: "If I'm going to take you out to dinner, I want to take you to a restaurant I've already eaten at, where I know the food is good... If that goes well, then we can look at selling your newer offer."
- Whenon the coffee date, when they name the offer they want to push.
Script "The easiest thing to sell is going to be something they've already sold before in the past to their customer list."
Script "Have you done it again?" "No." "Ding, ding, ding."
- Whypast winners that were never repeated are the easiest tests. Many say they ran a webinar three months ago that did great, and never ran it again.
- Howreuse their old webinar and sales page. The best part is often buried halfway down; move it to the top. "Just take the webinar and turn it on its side."
Script "What would be the first thing to try?" "More truck bed liners."
- Whya partner with 40,000 truck bed liner buyers asks what to sell next. The answer is the same thing: a new truck, a spouse's truck, or different colors.
Story · Selling Ice to Eskimos (Jon Spoelstra) Hired to sell tickets for last-place teams. First move: mail past buyers. Then reposition: tickets became cheap family entertainment, and packages built around star visiting players (Michael Jordan). Then something new: a leadership talk (e.g. Stephen Covey) an hour before the game, selling tickets to corporations by the hundreds. All from past buyers.
Story · GoPro and Ron Lynch They were selling a stand after the camera. Ron asked: why not another camera? Two points of view make surfing videos better, and two cameras need two stands and two cases.
Story · The 8% open rate A partner gave Travis a 90,000-name test file from about 400,000 customers. They were already promoting a webinar by email that "crushes it" (about $10K a month) at roughly an 8% open rate. "What do you think would happen if I mailed it directly to their mailboxes?" "We'd make a fortune." The test: a mailing where people text back for the webinar. "I already know the offer works... I'm working with a customer. The marketing's already done for me."
How it works · where to tap in (the gaps they ignore) Ask them to walk you through their process, then find the holes. "Even the best business owners are only doing three things."
| Where | What's usually happening | The tap-in |
|---|---|---|
| Past / lapsed customers | Nothing. Never contacted again | A thank-you (reactivation) campaign with a special offer |
| Lapsed SaaS users | People leave and come back (e.g. real estate cycles) | "We miss you. Maybe you took a break; it's heating up again. We put together a special package." |
| Webinar no-shows | About 40% show; the other 60% get a couple of emails | Put no-shows in a separate list and tap them |
| After the sales call | Three emails and that's it | Follow-up. "The fortune is in the follow-up." |
| After the purchase | Nothing (a dead end if there's nothing next) | The next offer in their line |
| Live events | About 30% convert; the rest are left alone | Mail or email: "Are you still in the real estate game?" |
| Ignored Facebook PMs | Dozens a day asking "how much?" get no answer | Work them (one person did over $100K a month this way) |
| Paid Facebook groups | A buyer asset not being monetized | A T1 post, have them PM a page, tap them |
| Direct mail | They'll never send snail mail | A T1 letter (great for a $25K mastermind) |
| A day they don't mail | If they mail Mon/Wed/Fri, Sunday is open | One email on the open day |
Script "If you can't reactivate their old customers, that tells you something."
- Whythe replies ("your software sucks, it's too expensive") tell you about the partner. It's data.
Tip · Pick the product When a partner has several products (John Blake: 75,000 buyers, a directory-listing product and a cybersecurity product), pick the one that sold better, or the one with the most present pain. With a multi-department company, ask which program they want to sell more of and test only that one.
Warning
- Don't sell live events for partners. "The second you sell one, they're on the hook." Hotels and food become a hot mess. Sell the back end after the event instead.
- Don't help them create a brand-new program ("turn our oranges into tangelos").
- Don't replace their phone sales process. "That's just not the business that I'm in."
- Don't cross-promote complementary products on a first date. That's a third-date move.
- Don't use the Beamer 1.0 kickoff emails (KO1-KO3) on a first date. Use the campaign starter kit.
Quick recap · The deliverable is not the offer (full version: Stage 4). Same problem in a new format (one-on-one, group, live, virtual) is not a new offer. A different problem or promise is. "Live event to virtual = same offer." "Back pain to 'up your golf game' = a new, harder offer."
(PPM Part 5, 5P §4, KIS §1, §5, FUT §10, BQA §08, DPT §5, FAP §4, §9, INF §07)
3.2bReactivation, start to finish: the thank-you campaign to past customers
AHA · From chasing a NEW LIST to asking OLD BUYERS BACK
Why it matters Most of what Travis does is customer reactivation: mailing a customer list that hasn't been mailed and making them an offer. Most people left because nobody asked them back. Cards expire, people get busy, and many come back if someone only asks. It never competes with what the partner already does, so there's nothing to prove, and every sale is money they would never have had.
When to use it The first date with any partner who has past customers, especially continuity programs, SaaS and recurring services. It's the first rung of the ladder in 3.2: sell the exact same thing to the people who already bought it.
Prerequisites: a partner with a customer list (Stage 1), a coffee date where you found the gap (Stage 2.11), and the test framing from 3.1.
How it works · the campaign, step by step
- Find who fell out. Ask the partner to walk you through their process, then look for the people nobody contacts again: past or lapsed customers, churned SaaS users, live-event attendees who didn't buy, no-shows.
- Size the stream before any split. Lapsed customers x price x the share who come back. Do the math with them, out loud.
- Propose it as a test you fund. You do the work; they deliver the service.
- Send the thank-you T1. Thank them profusely for their past business, say you miss them, and offer something extra to come back.
- Make the offer the same thing they had, with a special gift or a bonus built from what the partner already gives.
- Tap the replies through T2 and T3 like any campaign (Stage 5), and close with Stage 6.
- Read the replies as data, including the ones who don't come back.
- If it works, keep going and expand (3.8); if the list is angry, get out.
Script · Proposing it "First off, I'm just going to be working with people that used to pay you but aren't paying you anymore. Are you planning on bringing any of those back? ... That's all money you never would have had anyway."
- Whena set-in-their-ways partner who worries you'll touch what already works.
Script · The T1 "Hey dude, we miss you over here. I was talking to Carlos about you, wondered what happened to you. So we put together a little special gift if you wanted to come back."
- WhyTravis calls it ridiculously simple, and often all you have to do.
- Howthank past customers profusely, say you miss them, make a special offer to come back.
Script · Lapsed SaaS users "We miss you. Maybe you took a break; it's heating up again. We put together a special package."
- Whenmarkets where people leave and come back (real estate cycles, for example).
Script "One of the big opportunities, I think, is for SaaS companies, because every SaaS company has churn. And what is churn? They're buyers that aren't active anymore."
How it works · the offer Start with the exact same thing. To lure lapsed subscribers back, thank them profusely and offer a bonus from what the partner already has, like a VIP hotline. For memberships that churn, test a package (a year on payments) to people who used to pay but don't anymore (7.4).
How it works · the stream math
| Example | Past / lapsed customers | Price | If X% come back | Monthly stream |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Josh's recurring service | 30,000 | $100/month | 5% = 1,500 | about $150,000 a month |
| A $47/month SaaS | 100,000 churned | $47/month | 5% = 5,000 | 5,000 paying monthly |
Then ask what they make from this channel now. If the answer is zero, their focus goes right back to the size of the stream.
Quick recap · Josh's pitch, step by step (full version: Stage 3.4). "You've got 30,000 people that were on the service but aren't anymore. What do you think would happen if we sent them a thank-you letter, thanked them profusely for their past business, told them we missed them and we'd like them back, and here's something extra we're going to do? Do you think we'd bring any of those back?" Then: would they run it on their own? Then the 5% math. Then the split, after the stream is the focus.
How it works · read the replies "If you can't reactivate their old customers, that tells you something." Replies like "your software sucks, it's too expensive, I get the same thing elsewhere" are data about the partner. Even people who don't come back tell you why they left, and that becomes a marketing asset. If a customer list replies angry, the partner probably isn't delivering on their promise.
Story · The electrician (2009) A 20-year electrician lost all his business in the recession. Travis had him pull together old invoices and call past customers about jobs they'd put off. Business came back.
Story · Letters to buyers "So much better to send out 2,500 letters in the mail to buyers and make $142K" selling $20,000 things.
Story · The 300 who didn't buy At a live event, 600 attended and about 300 bought. Mail the other 300: often the timing just wasn't right.
Variation · Reactivation vs the second helping Both start with "thank you," so they're easy to mix up. Reactivation (here) goes to people who used to buy and stopped, and sells them the same thing again; it's a first-date test. The second helping (Stage 7.2) goes to people who just bought, minutes or days ago, and sells them the next thing; it's an ongoing stream fed by the partner's daily flow. Use reactivation to open a partnership, and the second helping once the partner has flow and a proven next offer.
Warning Look at flow, not just the list. 5,000 past customers but only 4 new ones a month means your cash flow dries up once the list is worked. It isn't a no; just know it. And don't jump to a new offer on the first date: reactivate with what they already sold.
Before I send a reactivation T1
(PPM Part 5, BQA §05, §08, Q&A, KIS §5-6, 5P §3, T3P §8)
3.3Closing the coffee date: lay out the "pain-in-the-a** stuff"
AHA · From hiding your terms to LEADING with them
Why it matters Seven- and eight-figure people want someone who gets the job done, and clear terms change their demeanor. For the right people, your conditions aren't a problem. For the wrong ones, it's better to find out now than three weeks in. You can even try to talk them out of it: if they're still there, they're in.
How it works · the close, step by step
- Set out what you see: "Here's what you've got going on. Here's where I think we could help. Here's the upside. I'm going to take care of all the downside."
- Propose the test (3.1).
- Give the honest drawbacks: "Here's the pain-in-the-a** stuff about working with me. Point A, point B, point C. Have I talked you out of it yet?"
- Bring up the percentage last (3.4).
- Book two dates before you hang up: the campaign start (or kickoff) and the offer call with their team.
- If it's too much to process: "I'm a crock-pot brain... Let me take this back to my team, turn it on low, and if I smell anything good brewing, we can get back together."
Script "Let me tell you all the pain-in-the-a** stuff about working with me. I want 100% control."
- Why"I don't want you to have to mess around pushing buttons."
- Howthen: "I want to run a test first, a 5-10 email test to your list."
Script "I'm not looking for a boss. You'll be working with my project manager. Is that going to be an issue for you?"
- Howlay it all out before the first date.
Script "I just want to be super clear so we start this partnership on the right leg. I am not looking for a boss. You can look at the copy on the first few to make sure it makes you look good. If you need to look at the copy every single time and make adjustments, I totally get that, but we're not going to make a good long-term relationship."
- Whythe right partners are relieved: "Where have you been all my life?"
- Whenonce they've said yes to the test, before work starts.
Script "I'm like Marcus Lemonis. I want 100% control. You're going to have to give me a login to your Infusionsoft account... All I want you guys to do is deliver it."
- Whyif half the outcome sits with their sales team, your share depends on them.
Script "Completely understand. That's not going to work for me. Where should we go from here?"
- Whyif they balk at control or logins, you walk. There are too many deals to get needy about one.
Script "That's not going to work for me. I appreciate what you're trying to do. What's important to you about that?"
- Whysaying no, then asking about their position, turns a fight into a collaboration.
Script "Maybe I haven't been clear. I'm not asking you for any money up front. I'm putting all my capital, my experience and my team on this. If we make zero, I'm the one that's out. If references would make you feel better and you'd rather pay somebody 25 grand up front and a 5 grand monthly retainer, that's awesome. That's not what I do... I'd much rather have data tell me if I made a good decision."
- Whenif they ask for references. Travis says that usually means he "jumped in with a solution too soon."
Script · Saying no to what they want to sell "I get it, you want to sell your live event. I'm not your dude for that. Are you open to bringing in new revenue before that event?"
- Whyas the investor, you call the shots, kindly.
Script · Putting a new partner on the calendar "The first opening I have to even run the test is fall of this year."
- WhyBrandon's new partners all wanted everything "right now." Usually they say "I wish it were sooner," take the date, and respect you more. "Don't say 'I can do it tomorrow' to everyone. It leads to disaster."
Story · Eric's walk-away Eric's partner started arguing over fractions of a percent. He felt ready to walk away: "there's so much other opportunity." Then they mentioned a database of 1,900 customers untouched since 2020, and offered double the commission to work it. The deal turned around just by taking a different stance.
Story · Eric's CBD partner ("let's just get married") Eric charged $10K up front because his partner wanted to skip the dating. Travis: $10K works as a test, but slow it down. "Hey, I like you too, but I'd really rather move into this slowly. Let's not count the kids before they hatch." People usually respect that.
Warning Don't talk tools and deliverables on the coffee date, and don't do long intake calls on a test. Do the offer call; save deep intake until you're making money.
(5P §5, FAP §8, BPW §02, DPT §8, INF §07, BQA §05, §07, COA §06A)
3.4The percentage talk: frame the stream, then the split
AHA · From negotiating a PERCENTAGE to growing an INCOME STREAM
Why it matters As soon as you say a percentage, that's where their focus goes, and it turns into a haggle. A percentage means nothing without context. Frame the size of the income stream first, and the split becomes an easy yes. A bigger share lets you fund the leads and team that grow the stream, which beats a bigger slice of a small pie for the owner.
How it works · the order
- Agree control and the test first. The percentage comes last.
- Make the stream real with their own numbers ("If we could get 5% to renew...").
- Ask about their cost of goods before the split.
- Say the frame (below), then "shut up and say, 'What do you think?'" Let them name a number first.
- Agree it before any email goes out. The copy, management and leads are free; the split applies once a sale is made.
Script "I don't want to make this about percentages. What I want to do is grow this income stream to make it as big as we possibly can. The worst thing I could do to you is take a percentage that's too small, because then I can't grow the income stream. So let's be partners in this. Let's do it 50/50. All the expenses come out of my side. I'm sure you would much rather have 50% of a million dollars than 80% of $100,000. How's that sound?"
- Whyframes his share as what pays for growth, not as his cut.
- Howhe's said it so often he "can almost do it in his sleep." Sometimes they offer 50/50 before he finishes.
Script "The second worst thing I can do is take a piece that's too big, because if it doesn't work for you, it's going to kill our long-term partnership."
- Howfollow with: "All the expenses come out of my side. I will never ask you for a dime up front. No deposits." They often answer "Why don't we just split it 50/50?" or raise their product costs, and you collaborate from there.
Script "Do you think they'd rather have 50% of a million, or 80% of 100,000, or 100% of zero?"
- WhenKH's business broker said "I'll think about it" after hearing 50/50. Ask what they make now from that channel: if it's zero ("too expensive"), their focus comes right back.
Sample · Josh's thank-you campaign pitch, step by step (recurring services at $100-350 a month)
- "You've got 30,000 people that were on the service but aren't anymore. What do you think would happen if we sent them a thank-you letter, thanked them profusely for their past business, told them we missed them and we'd like them back, and here's something extra we're going to do? Do you think we'd bring any of those back?"
- "Left to your own, with everything else going on, would you run that? ... Okay. Let us run that for you. We'll run a test. Maybe it'll do good, maybe it won't. All you'd need to do is deliver your service."
- "Gosh, if we could get 5% to renew, that's 1,500 people at 100 bucks a month. That's about 150 grand a month. Is that even a significant enough number for you?"
- "I don't know if we can do that or not. But I'd like to grow that income number even bigger, as a partnership, and I'd front all the expenses. I want to talk to you about what you think would be an equitable split."
- Howbring out a calculator. Usually they offer 50/50. If not: "Here's a way I'd propose: we split 50/50, but I take all the expenses. How's that sound?"
Sample · The vision math for an e-commerce brand "So you've got 100,000 people that bought your stuff. If we sold even 1% of those, that's 1,000. If we found a $5,000 program and you got 50% commission, that'd be 2.5 million." Then: "Are you going to do it on your own? ... Is 2.5 million even a number that would be worthwhile to you guys?" And if they only think in affiliates who promote them back: "Would you be mad if you made $2.5 million and they never promoted you back?"
Script · Adding the value of leads "'Our salespeople get 10%.' Totally appreciate it. Are your salespeople driving their own leads? No. Are they following up? No." Then: "How much is a phone call costing you? $200 is reasonable. If I mail 1,000 of your customers and get 30 leads, that would cost you $6,000. I'll drive the leads, you don't pay me the $6,000, and I'll convert them too."
Script · Taking less on purpose "Dude, you've got 90,000 past customers and a $5,000 offer. I don't need 50% to make it work. Why don't we do 40/60? You take 60."
- Whyhe's after the long-term relationship. On another deal he took 40% so the partner had extra money to buy more front-end buyers, which grows the flow.
Script · The biggest piece is on the back end "What's the biggest piece you could give me if they uplevel into your mastermind?"
- Story: Travis proposed a test of 50-100 buyers into Eric's $2,000 program. On the call he learned about 20% uplevel into a $30,000 mastermind. Fifty buyers = 10 new mastermind members. Smart owners give 100% of that; others 50-75% if you cover card fees and they do nothing.
Script · Walking away from scarcity "Thank you for telling me that. I appreciate it, and for that reason, I'm out."
- Whena prospect said, "If I make $2 million, I don't think I'd be okay paying you a million." They make zero from the channel now, have no cost-of-goods issue, and still object to you making that much. "I'm more than willing to let you keep 100% of zero" (Travis doesn't say that part out loud).
Typical splits mentioned across the calls
| Situation | Split | From |
|---|---|---|
| Offer about $10,000 or less | 40-50% (often 50/50) | 5P, DPT |
| Offer above $10,000 | 20-30%, depending on their cost of goods (one $20K deal was 25%) | 5P, DPT |
| ~$2K program | About 50% | PPM |
| $25K offer | About 20-30% | PPM |
| Digital products, including monthly payments | About 50% of payments | SHC |
| Back-end mastermind upsell | Smart owners 100%; others 50-75% | DPT |
| Big list, high-ticket offer (90,000 buyers, $5K) | He offered 40/60 (partner 60) | BQA |
| New assets you build (direct mail list, new group) | 50/50 of whatever comes from it | PPM |
| Spin-off group seeded by a partner | "I wouldn't necessarily do it 50/50" | DPT |
| New business owner, if the test works | "I'd like 10% of the revenue of your company" | DPT |
Variation · Do you share these ranges with the partner? No. "I never lay it out for the partner like that." (Nathan asked how to handle dropping from 50% to 25% when a price crosses $10K.) Size the share by their flow and price, and make it a partnership. A $10K product with 90,000 past $2,000 buyers: he'll take less. Twenty buyers: no deal.
Remember "Don't get f*cking hung up on a percentage, and don't let them get hung up on a percentage... You can't take a f*cking percentage to the bank." Good partners are often generous; Travis has had to talk some down. And only take big revenue shares where you control about 90% of the outcome.
Warning
- Don't lead with the percentage. Don't take more than the deal needs.
- Don't stay with people who are morally offended by your share.
- If the partner squeezes the split until the numbers don't work, say so and walk.
- Getting 50% is harder when it's "their pie" (money they already plan to make), much easier when it's found money.
(5P §5, FAP §8, BQA §05, DPT §8, SHC §08, KIS §6, PPM Part 2, 9, BPW §11)
3.5Agreements, not expectations
AHA · From HOPING they'll pay to TESTING whether they keep their word
Why it matters "Relationships are built on agreements." The first date tests the partner as much as the offer. "If they can't get a letter of agreement to me, guess what happens when they've got to send me a $50,000 check." Travis says he has never been screwed out of a dime of commission because of this.
How it works · the one-page letter of understanding (LOU)
| Section | What goes in it |
|---|---|
| I (Company A) agree to | Fund the copy and the virtual sales team, manage it, send the emails, follow up the leads; send the campaign on this date |
| You (Company B) agree to | Help with the offer on an offer call; pay on the agreed schedule; keep communication open |
| We both agree to | The split (e.g. 50/50); a refund holdback (e.g. 10-20%, or pay 80% of what's owed on a first date); invoice on the 1st, due the 15th; campaigns stop if unpaid; flag any changes |
It can be one page, uploaded to DocuSign. "I'll forget what kind of deal I made." Simple keeps it from feeling forced. Templates are in Beamer 1.0, "Once you get a deal, start here."
Script "I agree to do this, you agree to do that, and we both agree to do this."
Script "I'm going to send you a real simple agreement. I'll get it to you by noon tomorrow. When can you have it back?"
- Whyforces a date and time so you can watch whether they keep it.
- Howbe kind, not just nice. If they're traveling, set it for the day after they return. He's fine if they ask to change the date; if they get squirrelly about giving one, he's out.
Script "If you're like me, unless you put something on the calendar, it never gets done. I've got my calendar in front of me. Do you have yours?"
- Howgive yourself 2-3 weeks on your first ones. If they push for sooner: "Here's what I promise we'll have it done by. If we can get it done faster, we'll send the first test email before then."
Script "Let's get together at 1 p.m. on Monday, Central. Here's the Zoom link. I always show up a minute early. Will you be able to show up at 1 p.m. Central on the dot?"
- Whyhe's testing who they are. If they blow off the call or show up 15 minutes late, imagine how they'll act when they owe you 50 grand.
Script · Tech access "I'll have my tech person send what we need by close of business Friday. When can your tech people have that back?"
- "You'll get it when you get it" is a warning sign. Explain: "The way I run my relationships is based off agreements."
Script · When they miss one "We both agreed to Wednesday. I don't know if something came up... This is a first date for me. I'm not sure we can keep agreements, so I'm going to close the file on us."
- Whylet them save it or walk.
Script · Changing a date (Nice Guy Negotiation) "Hey, it's perfectly reasonable to change the date. We all get busy, I get it. Over here, we just have a tiny little rule where if we're going to change the date, we let both parties know so we can agree on a new date. What would you like to do?"
Script · Responsiveness "If we're partners and we're making money together, when I PM you, you'd better respond. Or I'm out."
- Why"We train people how to treat us." Travis's "velvet hammer" Casey pings and pings until they learn to respond. If people often ghost you, look at your system and where you might be responsible.
Remember · You make the rules E.g. invoice every time $5,000 is due until you know each other, due by Friday the following week. Later, once a month. "It's okay to change agreements. It's not okay to ignore them."
Warning
- Never surprise them in the agreement. Everything in it was already agreed out loud. Don't put anything new in it.
- Avoid regulated niches like insurance, where commission sharing has rules.
- No income promises: say "our goal is" or "we're shooting for."
- Simple letters of understanding, not multi-page contracts with 15 points on day one.
(FAP §8, 5P §5, DPT §1, KIS §4, BQA §07, ATR §05, COA §06F)
3.6Tracking, control and getting paid
AHA · From being an EXPENSE to being a PAYCHECK
Why it matters Owners cut expenses; they protect paychecks. If the flow of leads runs through you, you control the cards, you always know what's happening, and if they stop paying, the sales stop. Partners welcome it, because you "handle all the tech."
How it works · tracking the sales
| Method | When to use it |
|---|---|
| An affiliate link in their shopping cart (95% of the time) | Most carts and SaaS companies already have affiliate tracking |
| A separate SKU, product code or program | Double tracking, so reports stay clean even if a cookie fails |
| A coupon code tied to you at checkout | Carlos's approach. Travis: "perfect." |
| CC on their sales notifications, or a login | No affiliate program |
| Tracking phone numbers, "tell them Eric sent you," lead sheets returned with a disposition for each | Local and service businesses. Or sell the calls or appointments instead of the closed job |
| Call tracking software (e.g. CallRail, an attendee's tip) | Shows unanswered and unreturned calls; can't tell you whether they closed |
How it works · keeping the flow through you
- The T1 goes out in the partner's voice, but every reply lands on your side: your Gmail, your Facebook page and Messenger, your SMS number, your pages. Orders still go through their cart.
- Set up the Facebook page under your own account, named for a benefit ("Competition Ready," "Awesome Accountancy"), not their brand unless they clear it.
- Email: a benefit-led address, e.g. getbuffvip@gmail.com, or their name plus "vip."
- SMS: Travis uses Avochato because it's simple (GoHighLevel and Twilio felt too technical to him).
- Direct mail: a personal URL (PURL), like chris.thankyouoffer.com, so you know who visited and only re-mail them.
- Don't make the tech a negotiation point. Just say you'll handle it; most partners say "thank God."
- Owning the replies builds new lists (SMS, group members) you can work later, with the partner's agreement.
Script "We become a paycheck to them rather than an expense."
- Whyowners protect a paycheck. "It's found money with no hassle."
Remember · Retain copyright On the T1s and T3s you write, so you can reuse a winning land-investing T3 with another land partner. Their own copy stays theirs.
Remember · Their list stays theirs Travis doesn't load a partner's list into his own email tool ("a tech nightmare" plus domain warm-up). Most partners on bigger carts (Infusionsoft, Kartra, ActiveCampaign) can give a limited login. Refusing a login is a deal breaker for him: "I'll just go find me another partner."
Story · Show them the money Track it through affiliate links so they can see it: $100K in, $40K to you, $60K to them.
Warning Only sell what was agreed, at the agreed prices. Bring new ideas to them first. And avoid big revenue shares where their sales team closes the sale and you can't see the results.
(5P §5, FAP §8, DPT §8, PPM Part 8-9, BQA §05, INF §06, COA §06C, KIS §6)
3.7Money up front: never, sometimes, or a deposit?
Variation · The calls give four different answers. Here's why
| What Travis said | Where | The context |
|---|---|---|
| "I will never ask you for a dime up front. No deposits." | FAP, DPT, BPW | The standard Beamer partner deal: you fund the test, they pay only after the money hits their account |
| For about three years he asked for about 10% of the expected first test ($5-10K) as an "advance commission," then stopped | 5P | He used it to test how partners pay ("If I have to follow up with them, I'm out"). He stopped because the money kept him in failing tests too long. |
| "If you want to lock in your spot on the calendar, it's a 10K deposit" | FUT | His agency deals for big ($250K) campaigns, booked months out. It's an advance commission taken off the top; if sales fall flat he refunds what's left. He's had to return one. |
| Eric charged $10K for a first date | BQA | Fine as a test, but slow the relationship down |
How to read it: for a Beamer test with a new partner, the default is no money up front. That's what makes you the chooser and the test easy to say yes to. A deposit belongs to a later, more established agency model, where its job is to show how the client handles money while the amounts are small.
The deposit close, if you do use one (agency model)
- Get the details: which email, PayPal, card or wire.
- "Before I do, I don't send out invoices unless you're 100% sure. Are you saying you're 100% sure you want to move forward?"
- "Great. So I'm going to send this to you. When will you pay it?"
- If they say "Accounting will have it Monday or Tuesday": "Can we call it Wednesday morning? So we're in agreement."
- Past the date: "We had agreement you're going to have the deposit in by Wednesday. You're free to send it in at any time, but I can't lock in a spot for you until you send it in."
- Still nothing: explain why you ask for deposits, then take them off the calendar. (Once a CMO missed it and the CEO got on the phone.)
Script "I want to see how you guys handle money when the amounts are small, because these amounts are going to get big."
(5P §5, FAP §8, DPT §2, FUT §10, BQA §05, T3P §11)
3.8After the first emails: continue, expand or exit cleanly
AHA · From PUSHING the partner to letting results PULL them in
Why it matters A good test flips the pressure: the partner starts pushing you for more. A bad test is easy to walk away from, because nobody signed anything big. "It's mentally hard to say, 'You know what, this isn't going well. I'm going to cancel the contract.'" With a test, you just call the game.
How it works · what Travis looks at first
| Signal | What he looks for |
|---|---|
| Replies | Ask for a reply in the first 2-3 emails. Silence tells him something. |
| Tone | "Where's my refund?" or "Who's this?" = bad. "Eric's the coolest dude, he's helped me so much" = good. |
| Sales | Out of 10 people who see the offer, he likes to see 1 or 2 buy. |
| Length | 5-10 emails: room to dial the offer in, or to make more money if it's working. |
| What you see | What it means | What to do |
|---|---|---|
| Hate, "where's my refund?" | The list doesn't like the partner | Get out |
| Silence | The list is neutral to them | Maybe one more T1 with a different angle. Still pulling teeth? Get out. |
| "Yes, tell me more" | It works | Keep going, then expand (Stage 7) |
Quick recap · Troubleshooting a test (full version: Stage 5). No hand raisers = wrong currency or a bad list. Hand raisers but few T2 replies = a T2 question is the problem. T2 replies but no sales = the T3. "Campaigns rarely fail because of a bad T2 or T3. They fail because of the audience and its affinity for the partner."
Script · When it works "Let me tell you what happens when the test kind of goes well. They want to move forward all on their own."
- Howa couple of emails bring in $30-50K and the partner asks, "What's next? Can you email my list every day?" "Pretty soon they're introducing you to the whole company, and you've got a full-fledged deal on your hands."
Script · Talking it through after a win "We sent five emails and made 50 grand. We can send one email a week and resend to unopens; that's probably $5,000 a week, so send me $2,500 a week. How does that sound?"
- Whyhappy partners usually ask for more ("You send Tuesdays and Thursdays? I can send Mondays, Wednesdays and Sundays"). The test becomes "the first date that never ends."
After a good test (Cherylyn's recap, which Travis confirmed)
- Short simple agreement.
- Run the test (PSM-style emails: hand-raise, short chat, details in a Google Doc).
- Clone the data to other channels: email to direct mail, or a new segment or group.
- Longer agreement and more offers.
Script · Exiting a test that isn't working "Hey Shirley, I really wanted to knock this out of the park for you and get a home run, but I can't even get on base here... This is not going to be a good fit for me. I hope we can still do business in the future."
- Whygive the real reason (e.g. not enough of the right buyers on the list). "You're better off giving up quick." Most partners just say, "Ah, that's cool."
Script · Calling the game "I wanted to hit it out of the ballpark for you, but we really had trouble just getting on first base. So I'm going to call the game."
- Howreport the numbers sent, replies and price points, with no emotion. Suggest what the data says (often more certainty, like a results-based guarantee).
Script · When it made money, just not enough "Hey, we did okay on this, but... I don't think there's going to be a big enough universe for it to make sense going forward for us."
- Whythe test was agreed to be "for them and for us," so ending it is no betrayal. Give a specific reason, e.g. "you need investors who've done five deals or more, and most of these have done none." They may try to save it ("Can we give you more money?"); still tell them what panned out.
Script "If it doesn't work in five, get the f*ck out. Because the ones that are working, they're going to work."
- Whygood campaigns show it early. He has left some partners after just two emails: "Dude, it ain't going to work." "Don't keep on trying to put lipstick on a pig."
Story · Brandon's messy exit On the wrong bike, having taken money up front. Travis: sit down with the decision maker. Lay out what happened, with data, and the missed deadlines. Say how you could continue and what you won't do anymore. Ask, "What would you like to do from this point?" Stay detached from the outcome. He once told a client who launched 3-4 products a year, "I just don't want to do all the new offers. I can keep crushing it for you on this one."
Tip · What a bad test tells you about the partner If their prospects convert better than their buyers, it signals unfulfilled promises. Google them for ripoff reports and read their Amazon reviews before you go in.
Warning Don't save deals or chase partners who are "on the 50-yard line" because you like them. Travis calls this his most common mistake. No drama when you walk away.
(DPT §3, FAP §9, SHC §05, KIS §6, 5P §5)
3.9Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Debbie (5P) | When do I agree the percentage? | Always before any email goes out. The copy, management and leads are free; the split applies once a sale is made. |
| Eric (5P) | I have a handshake deal (law-firm marketer: $30K websites plus a $1-20K/month content program). What next? | A one-page "I agree / you agree / we both agree" doc. Agree the share before the test by framing the vision, then ask "What do you think?" |
| Eric (5P) | What's a fair share on something that size? | Up to $10K: 40-50%. Over $10K: 20-30%, depending on their costs. |
| Nathan (5P) | What about the partner's legal department and contracts? | Simple letters of understanding, not multi-page contracts. Avoid regulated niches like insurance. No income promises. |
| Mark (5P) | Do you load their list into your email tool? | No. Get a limited login to their cart. Refusing a login is a deal breaker. Segment or clone later. |
| Carlos (5P) | Do you collect a deposit up front? | Did for about three years (an advance commission, ~10%) to test how they pay. Stopped because it kept him in bad tests. |
| Marcus (5P) | How do you never get screwed on payments? | Test their behavior, keep the flow going through you, be a paycheck with a future, track via affiliate links. |
| Marcus Carl (FAP) | When do I present the percentage? Do you still use the LOU? | Percentage last, with the partnership framing. Use the simple three-section agreement; nothing new goes in it. |
| Manuel (FAP) | How do I know they'll pay? | Set agreements and watch if they keep them. Invoice at $5K until you know each other. Get set up as an affiliate or get sale notifications. |
| Manuel (FAP) | When is a test a win, or time to stop? | "You'll know." Or work backwards from what you want per partner per week. |
| Brandon (FAP) | I'm on the wrong bike and took money up front. How do I exit? | Sit down with the decision maker, use data, say what you won't do anymore, ask where to go from here. Stay detached from the outcome. |
| KH (BQA) | My business broker hesitated at 50/50. | Shift focus: 50% of a million vs 100% of zero. Ask what they make from that channel now. |
| Josh (BQA) | Recurring financial services ($100-350/month). How do I help without salespeople? | Reactivate former customers with a thank-you campaign; frame the income stream, then the split. |
| Carlos (BQA) | My partner doesn't respond on time. | Partners respond or you're out. Train people how to treat you. |
| Arvel (DPT) | When a test goes well, won't they just take my copy and run it themselves? | Rarely. Successful people only have time for three things. If they want to do it themselves, let them, and wish them luck. |
| Phil (DPT) | What's the easiest first test? | Before cloning anything, ask to write a couple of posts and see if they sell. Send replies to a simple Gmail or text line. |
| Phil (DPT) | Do I have to bring them new leads and split with an influencer? | No. Do it with their own traffic first. Most people mostly want to sell more of their own stuff. |
| Cherylyn (DPT) | How long before a deal moves forward? | 5-10 emails to their list. Look at the relationship with the list and whether 1-2 of 10 who see it buy. |
| Cherylyn (DPT) | How do you say no to a partner tactfully? | Tell the truth with a reason, e.g. the buyer universe is too small. |
| Eric (DPT) | How do I track affiliate sales for local contractors? | Be a paycheck, route the flow through you, use tracking numbers and lead dispositions, or sell appointments. |
| West W (COA) | How do you track rev share without their books? | Affiliate links, a separate SKU or phone number, a login, or CC'd sales notifications. Route the flow through you. Test their reliability on the first date. |
| John (INF) | Which assets should I control in a test? | The partner keeps the list and gives you a cart login. You control the reply inbox (often a Gmail), the T3 on your Drive, and the tappers' currencies-and-sharks sheet. |
| (INF) | The partner wants me on their custom-domain email instead of Gmail. Problem? | Fine if you still fully manage it. If their team wants to manage it, it's a red flag. Also watch whether they meet agreed deadlines. |
| Max (INF) | On the call, how do I get them to let me email their list? | You don't convince anyone. Size the opportunity, offer to pay for a test, then set your terms. |
| Max (INF) | Do we upsell or cross-sell their offer? | Bring money they'd never have. Don't eat from the pie that pays their bills; find the back end. |
| Chen (INF) | How long do partnerships last? | Years. If you're truly found money, they never stop it; it usually ends when he upgrades. |
| Nathan (KIS) | My share drops from 50% to 25% when the price passes $10K. | Never show tiers. Size it by flow and price, and make it a partnership. |
| Brandon (KIS) | How do I get e-com brands past "be my affiliate first"? | Set the vision with numbers ($2.5M), ask if they'll do it themselves, then propose a partnership. |
| Carlos (KIS) | How do I avoid getting stiffed? | Treat agreements as tests. Track with an affiliate link, SKU or coupon. |
| Damian (KIS) | How do I tell a partner a test flopped? | Report the data with no emotion. Suggest fixes like a results-based guarantee, or call the game. |
| Brandon (PPM) | Who owns the assets you create? | You keep the flow, sell only what was agreed, and bring new uses to them with a split (e.g. 50/50). |
3.10Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Propose a small, funded test | Propose the full deal or a long contract first |
| Say honestly you don't know if it will work | Promise it will be awesome, or promise income |
| Sell the offer they've already sold to their buyers | Test their brand-new offer, or a live event, on a first date |
| Fill a gap they ignore | Compete with their sales team or front end |
| Lay out your conditions: 100% control, a login, no boss | Hide your terms until something goes wrong |
| Bring up the percentage last, framed as growing the stream | Lead with 50%, or haggle |
| Let them name a number first | Fixate on one percentage, or show your tiers |
| Take the risk; get paid after the money lands | Ask for a retainer, or money up front on a Beamer first date |
| Put a one-page agreement in writing | Surprise them with anything new in the agreement |
| Set dated agreements and watch if they're kept | Work off expectations and hope |
| Route replies through your inbox, page or number | Let replies go to their inbox, or load their list into your tools |
| Track with an affiliate link, SKU or coupon | Rely on their word for the numbers |
| Keep copyright on the T1s and T3s you write | Become "their email guy" |
| Exit a weak test early with an honest reason | Try to save deals or fix bad relationships |
| Walk away when terms don't work | Get needy about one deal |
3.11Worksheet · My test proposal and terms
1. The test
| Prompt | My answer |
|---|---|
| Hottest list they have (customers first) | |
| Offer that already sold (and how: webinar, calls, events) | |
| What are they doing with it now? | |
| Rung on the first-date ladder (same / repositioned / similar) | |
| Flow point or gap (open send day, lapsed customers, no-shows, non-buyers) | |
| Test size (3-10 emails, 3-5 posts) | |
| What I fund and what it costs me (cap the tails) | |
| Where replies go (Gmail, text line, page) |
2. The stream and the split
| Prompt | My answer |
|---|---|
| Past / lapsed customers | |
| Price (per month or ticket) | |
| If X% come back or buy | |
| Monthly stream in their numbers | |
| What they make from this channel now | |
| Their cost of goods | |
| The split we agreed, and who pays expenses | |
| Back-end upsell and my piece of it |
3. Agreement points
| Item | Agreed |
|---|---|
| 100% control and a login | |
| Test size | |
| Percentage | |
| Refund holdback | |
| Payment schedule (invoice dates, due dates) | |
| Tracking (affiliate link / SKU / coupon / notifications) | |
| Campaign start date | |
| Offer call date and time |
4. Small agreements: are they kept?
| Agreement | Who | Due | Kept? |
|---|---|---|---|
| Send the letter of agreement | Me | ||
| Return the signed agreement | Partner | ||
| Tech access / login | Partner | ||
| Tracking set up | Partner | ||
| Show up to the offer call on time | Partner |
5. Test log
| Email # | Date | Replies | Tone (friendly / silent / angry / "just the price") | Sales | Decision (keep / new angle / walk) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | |||||
| 2 | |||||
| 3 | |||||
| 4 | |||||
| 5 |
Pre-send checklist
3.12Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 4 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| They want a big contract or you're proposing one | 3.1 Propose a test |
| They want to push their new offer | 3.2 What to sell first |
| They want to approve everything | 3.3 Your conditions |
| The split turned into a haggle | 3.4 The percentage talk |
| They're late, slow, or stop replying | 3.5 Agreements |
| You can't see the sales | 3.6 Tracking |
| The test isn't working and you're still in it | 3.8 Exit cleanly |
Build the Offer: What They're Really Buying (the 30%)
What this stage settles: what the partner's buyers are really buying, the present pain you'll lead with, why their current plan fails them, what's different about the new plan, and which objections (sharks) you must kill. You end it able to draw the before and after.
Why it comes here: "No amount of great copy saves a bad offer." "I never start writing until I can draw it out." If you can't draw it, writing it will be even worse. About 60% of the offers Travis fixes fail because they sell future gain or something vague.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 3: a partner, a test agreed, and a proven offer to work with.
- Stage 0.8: 60 / 30 / 10 (this stage is the 30%).
- Stage 0.9: the golf course (this stage is the fairway: the pre-selling).
Come back to this stage when: the T1 gets few hand raisers, people qualify but don't buy, you hear "too expensive," or you catch yourself describing modules, features or "a proven process."
4.0Stage at a glance
The offer is never the deliverables. It's the emotional hot button, and almost every hot button is a hit to someone's identity or reputation.
The decision path (how people move toward a yes)
- Present pain: a symptom they can point a finger at, right now.
- What it's really costing them.
- Why it hasn't been solved yet: what they've tried (the old plan) and why it failed.
- What's missing: they must state it or agree to it.
- What's different now: your new, clearly different way out. This is the main part of the offer.
- Kill the sharks: answer the objections (TIMER) before you ask them into the boat. Show the price early.
- Heaven Island: the external result, and who they get to be (identity and reputation).
The tools in this stage
| Tool | What it's for | Section |
|---|---|---|
| The index finger test | Is the pain concrete enough? | 4.2 |
| Identity and reputation | Finding the strongest hot button | 4.3 |
| The decision path | The order of your pre-selling | 4.4 |
| The Offer T | Mapping old plan vs new plan on one page | 4.5 |
| TIMER and the elastic gap | Finding and killing the sharks | 4.6 |
| CAP (Child, Adult, Parent) | The order of every bullet, email and campaign | 4.7 |
| The flashlight | Building the offer from what they already have | 4.8 |
| "Give me ___ and I'll give you ___" | Testing the offer for clarity | 4.8 |
| Research toolkit, part C | Finding the buyers' pain | 4.10 |
One-line rules
- "Our marketing is written by the market."
- "If I can't draw it out, I don't start writing."
- "You get the ball rolling with present pain."
- "Every hot button is somewhere your identity or your reputation has taken a hit."
- "Close is not good enough. Hit the button."
- "We never have to outrun the bear. We just have to outrun what they're already doing."
- "Excitement never equals conversion. Getting them over the wall does."
- "We're almost never selling what we think we're selling."
4.1AHAFrom selling the DELIVERABLES to selling what they're REALLY BUYING
Why it matters "People don't need the details that we think they need, because people aren't buying the deliverables." Nobody buys software, a program, coaching or a funnel. They buy the outcome, and usually something deeper under it. "Nobody's going to convert off of a proven freaking process. The brain can't even make a picture of that." Once you find the real currency, sales can jump with nothing else changed.
Script "Nobody buys software. Nobody buys a program. Nobody buys coaching. Nobody buys the deliverable."
- WhenDebbie felt stuck because her partner only had one 8-week program.
Script "I don't care if it's an info product or a service, we're never selling the thing."
Script "Maybelline does not sell makeup. Maybelline sells beauty. Once you understand that, your whole world opens up."
- Whypeople don't want the funnel. "Your funnel is a screwdriver." Ask what it creates for them and which hell they're escaping.
- Whenwhenever you sell a done-for-you service.
Script "Copywriters with decades of experience will say, 'Oh, we've got a proven process,' and they expect people to flump over in their chair with their wallets flying out of their pockets. Nobody's going to convert off of a proven freaking process."
- Howthe test is whether the brain can make a picture of it.
How it works · currency The currency is what they're really buying. It's almost never the surface benefit, and the first thing people tell you is not the most important. Interlock about three currencies (Travis's "Spock pinch") and an offer becomes almost irresistible.
| Offer | What it looked like it sold | What buyers were really buying |
|---|---|---|
| Real estate / land investing course | Money | Fun (after boring cubicle jobs), time with their kids, then income. "Money came third." |
| Dog trainer program | "Make extra money while you're playing with dogs" | A mission: no dog ever gets a shock collar or a newspaper on the nose. Three of the first four buyers said "I don't care about the money." |
| Travis's detail shop | Car details | A faster way for dealers to sell a car and turn cash flow |
| The mole guy | Mole removal | "It's not the moles I have a problem with." No mounds in his yard. |
| Eye drops (e-com) | Eye drops | Anti-aging (they sell mostly to older people) |
| Ring doorbell | Megapixels, safety | Revenge: catch the person who took your package |
| Weight loss, women over 50 | Losing weight | Not being hungry all the time; being seen by your husband again |
| Land (Travis's own) | Land | "Nobody's buying the product." Some buy for investment, some as an inflation hedge, one for a legacy for his grandkids |
Script "What's going to convert better? 'Make a bunch of money flipping houses,' or 'Here's a business you can teach your kids, connect with them, have a ton of fun, and it makes a really good living too'?"
- Whymoney is a tertiary currency in real estate. Asking "other than the income, what else is important?" revealed coaching their kids and escaping the cubicle.
Script "A lot of times what we think is not what motivates them to purchase."
Story · The SaaS company Its marketing said "get to a seven-figure company." Every testimonial talked about Amazon rankings: "I was at the bottom of page one, now I'm number one." Sellers check rankings many times a day. Once they talked about rankings, sales took off: "If you're on the second page, we can help you get to the first page."
Story · Marcus's weight-loss offer A $5,000 offer at about 30% commission made about one sale a week. They went back to the replies, asked deeper questions, found the hot button and changed only that. It went to a sale a day: from about $5K a week to $25-35K a week. Same list, product and price.
Warning Don't sell modules. His joke: a writing system that shipped as 38 DVDs. "We want less intellectual and more overt child benefit." Travis doesn't even like "learn" and "how-to" much: people want the end result. And don't write the offer alone "in a corner with your Google Doc": the currencies come from the market (4.10, Stage 5).
(5P §2, §4, KIS §5, T3P §1, §6, FAP §2-4, BPW §04, §07, INF §03-04, BQA §08)
4.2AHAFrom FUTURE GAIN to PRESENT PAIN (the index finger test)
Why it matters People move when something hurts now. "We have to offer to pull the thorn out of the lion's paw first before he's going to be open to going on the thousand-mile journey." A lion with a thorn in his paw can only think about the thorn; invite him on the journey and you'll leave clawed up. Even entrepreneurs, who think in visions, are moved most by present pain. And "if they're doing well selling future gain, you will absolutely crush it if you figure out what the present pain is."
Script "If you take nothing else away from this, please let it be this: you get the ball rolling with present pain. Your offer should be present-pain focused."
- Whyabout 60% of the offers Travis fixes fail because they sell future gain or something vague.
- Howcheck every offer: "Am I giving them an escape from hell?"
Script "If they're doing well selling future gain, you will absolutely crush it if you figure out what the present pain is, that they had yesterday and are having repeatedly, and position the offer around that."
- Whyrepositioning alone can lift sales. Keep future gain in, but lead with the pain.
- Wheneven luxury offers (Carlos asked about Lambos): "everything solves a present pain." Just don't get "saleslettery" about it.
Script "You must be able to point to their present pain. You can't just talk about it. It has to be something you can point to."
How it works · the index finger test
| Vague (can't point to it) | Close | Bullseye (you can point to it) |
|---|---|---|
| "Are you frustrated with your relationship?" | "Is the passion fading?" | "Does he kiss you like he's your grandpa?" |
| "Struggling with advertising?" | "Are your carry-out sales low?" | "Does your carry-out counter only have a couple of bags on it?" |
| "Are you struggling with Facebook ads?" | "Your ads aren't working" | "Show-up rates under 50%?" |
| "Do you feel abnormal?" | "Do the reindeer not let you join in their little reindeer games? Are they calling you names?" | |
| "Increase your margins up to 18%" | Closing the store on weekends; waiting tables yourself; the Sysco bill |
The "grandpa" line was found by asking a woman what was telling her the passion was fading: "now it's just a little peck on the cheek, like my grandpa kisses me." It became one of his best subject lines.
How it works · the factors that never fail
| Factor | Test | Example |
|---|---|---|
| Frequency | How many times a day or week do they think about it? | Staff shortages; food costs every time a vendor gets paid |
| Emotional temperature | What is it costing them? Does it burn? | "I think about peeing multiple times a day, but I'm not buying anything. If it started to burn..." |
| Drawable | Could you draw it as a picture or a comic strip? A symptom is "something you can see, hear, feel, taste, or touch." | Closing the store on weekends vs "increase margins" |
Script "I can't just sit there and talk about profits, profits, profits, because any monkey can do that."
- Howfind where the money actually leaks. Travis's done-for-you work is really "helping them meet payroll." Two salespeople who need leads or they'll leave is a symptom you can name.
Script "Is a 50% increase a feature, an advantage or a benefit?"
- Whya percentage is closer to a feature. Dimensionalize it: $500K a month becomes $750K, and that $250K is all yours. It lets you hire the manager you need. "Nobody talks like that. That's marketer talk."
Script "The first sale you make is to open the damn cover. If he'd just said, 'This is a book on outsourcing,' nobody would open it. But he said, 'The 4-Hour Workweek. Escape the rat race. Join the new rich.'"
- Why"rat race" is Hell Island, "new rich" is Heaven Island, and the 4-hour workweek is a curiosity-laden mechanism. That's "the gap."
Story · "The Power of Words" video A blind man's sign says something like "Can you help?" and people walk past. A woman rewrites it, and coins start dropping. The new sign: "It's a beautiful day and I can't see it." Most offers just say "it's a beautiful day," or talk about their can.
Story · Charles Atlas, the 90-pound weakling A comic-book ad: a bully kicks sand in a skinny kid's face and his girlfriend leaves. Six weeks later he's muscled up and hits the bully. Travis, all "freckles and elbows and knees," mailed off for the booklet and checked the mail every day. "Dynamic tension" was the mechanism; he didn't know what it meant. The picture sold it.
Story · The country club POS Travis's boss pitched faster kitchen orders for years. Travis noticed four women in the admin office doing billing; a club five times the size had one. "How much are those four costing you in payroll?" All the board members' eyes turned to him. They bought to cut staff, not for order speed.
Remember · Reverse it With one conversation done, you can start from the client's own marketing: if they sell future gain, turn it around to find the present pain.
Warning
- Don't light the fire on Hell Island. Your job is to point out the pain, never to cause it or rub it in, or you destroy the bond.
- Don't stop at feelings ("frustrated," "tired," "depressed"). A pain is usually a symptom; the judgment is something they add.
- "I'm not trying to write for maximum opens." A specific pain won't hit everyone, and it doesn't need to.
- "I can't afford it" coming out too fast means you're too focused on the product, not the present pain.
(WOW §3, T3P §1, 5P §4, BPW §04, §07, OT §1, FAP §4, INF §04)
4.3AHAFrom money and logic to IDENTITY and REPUTATION
Why it matters Buying decisions "are not made in our prefrontal cortex where we do all the intelligent stuff. They're made back in the lizard brain." Emotion decides first; logic justifies after. Money is a means to an end: "What are we trying to buy with money? Identity and reputation." And "I'd say 90% of people never talk about identity and reputation," so adding it is quick upside. "That one thing alone can double, triple, quadruple your sales."
| What it means | |
|---|---|
| Identity | How we feel about ourselves |
| Reputation | How we think other people see us |
Script "Every hot button is somewhere your identity or your reputation has taken a hit."
- Whythe one rule that ties every example together. Use it to test any hot button you think you've found.
Script "What do people always say after they've been robbed? 'I've been violated.' And when you've been violated, what does the lizard brain want to do? It wants to punch back."
- Whyexplains why revenge sold Ring when safety didn't.
Script "If I was the last man on earth, I probably wouldn't care what I ate. I'd want to stay healthy, but I wouldn't be trying to look hot. Losing weight is a means to an end."
- Howfind what's under the stated goal by asking what it would mean if nobody else could see it.
Script "Close is not good enough. It can be good enough if you just want to be a freelancer taking orders from everybody and let them figure out the hot buttons. I hate that."
- Whensaid after Carlos guessed "prevent theft" for NCR: right area, not yet the button.
How it works · the stories at a glance
| Product | The logical pitch that stalled | The hot button that sold it |
|---|---|---|
| Cell phones for Travis's POS techs | Spreadsheets of calls, overtime and efficiency, for years | "Aren't you supposed to be a high-tech company?" Phones arrived 48 hours later. |
| Ring doorbell | Megapixels, recording time, safety | Revenge: catch the person who took your package |
| NCR cash registers | Saves money, prevents theft | A booklet titled How to Rob Your Employer Blind |
| A panic attack cure | "Cure your panic attacks" | "Did you just have a panic attack?" plus the symptoms |
| A stock trading alert service | 10-baggers, 5-baggers | Making Dad proud; not hiding losses from your wife |
| Dove soap | Soap | "You are more beautiful than you think" |
| A country club POS | How much money they were losing | The GM's own daughter's $25K wedding never got billed |
| Weight loss, women over 50 | Lose weight | Not being hungry all the time; being seen by your husband again |
| Travis's affiliate course | Make money online | Control and autonomy; your wife's look of respect |
| Phoneless Sales Machine | Sell without phone calls | Being a leader, not a salesperson |
| Jif peanut butter | Peanut butter | "Choosy moms choose Jif": good moms |
| Toyota Prius vs Honda's hybrid | A hybrid car | "It was more important to be seen as green than it was to really be green." (outsold about five to one) |
| Apple iPod | "A thousand songs in your pocket" (have and do) | The white earbuds made you hip (be) |
Story · Mary and the cell phones In the mid-'90s Travis fixed restaurant POS systems across Arkansas with a beeper and pay phones. The techs pitched cell phones to Mary, the owner, with spreadsheets for years. Then on a busy Friday night at a Ruby Tuesday, the system was down, the restaurant was losing about $3,000 an hour in liquor sales, and the GM over all the Ruby Tuesdays watched Travis run back and forth to the pay phone. He called Mary: "Aren't you guys supposed to be a high-tech company, and you're running around with beepers?" Mary got her car washed every week and cared about image. They had phones in 48 hours.
Story · NCR The founder wrote a booklet for owners called How to Rob Your Employer Blind, written as if to employees, listing all the easy ways they steal. Reading it makes an owner furious. Travis adds: the people who steal are usually friends and family, not new hires.
Story · The trader's dad (Matt) Heaven Island: a trading client showed his dad his account. His dad put a hand on his shoulder: "Matt, I'm proud of you." Hell Island: when he was losing money, he thought about running out to grab the paper statement before his wife could see it. "Half of what these guys are buying has nothing to do with 10-baggers."
Story · Dove A sketch artist drew women from their own description, then from a stranger's. The stranger's sketch was prettier and more accurate. The video got 10 million views in about a week and went on to 60 million. They sold beauty, not soap.
Story · Cindy (a weight-loss T3) She hadn't been naked in front of her husband in five years and locked the door to change. The plan stayed the same; the story carried the button.
Story · The checks from three countries In 2005 Travis showed his wife a stack of affiliate checks from the US, UK and Canada. "I will never forget that look in her eye, of just how proud she was and how safe and secure she felt."
Story · Quitting smoking Travis knew for years that smoking was bad for him. Logic didn't stop him. What did was having "my dopamine trigger pushed" so stopping became more emotional than smoking. "Then I backed it up with logic."
How it works · the usual drivers Anger and fear; greed (which is really fear of missing out); jealousy and envy. All of them trace back to identity or reputation. Travis calls these uncomfortable emotions "dark mojo." To find them: "Give them two or three beers. What would they say?" (Chris Haddad calls it the "punch in the gut.") Then dial it back in the message.
How it works · have, do, be The strongest reward is what they can do now and who they get to be. "If we can get your recurring income going, then you won't have to be on the phone all the time... and you can spend more time serving your people like a leader rather than selling your people like a salesperson." (A reward must fit the person: "less selling" means nothing to people who love sales.)
Tip from Jake · Study clickbait Political YouTube titles use the words that trigger people: destroys, revenge, humiliates.
Remember · Reputation has a downside too "For people writing emails, part of what makes them quiver over the send button is: how am I going to look to people when I send this?" Every offer touches their reputation, for better or worse. Ask how what you're recommending will help or hurt it, and handle it before they get in the boat.
Warning Don't stop at "freedom," "safety," "retirement" or "preventing theft." They're analytical. Ask what's under them. And owners rarely know their own buyers' hot button; seven- and eight-figure companies are often "succeeding in spite of themselves" because the crowd is hungry.
(INF §03-04, FAP §4, BPW §03, T3P §1, BT1 §03, KIS §5)
4.4The decision path: getting the ball rolling the right way
AHA · From "what do I write?" to "what do I need to KNOW first?"
Why it matters The biggest challenge is getting the ball rolling, and rolling in the right direction. "I could get a sixth grader to write copy if we know these things." Once you know the pain, the cost, what's missing and what's different, the writing is the easy part.
How it works · the five steps (the Mike example)
| Step | What you find out | Mike, the restaurant owner (before fax advertising was ever mentioned) |
|---|---|---|
| 1. Present pain | A symptom you can point to | Not enough carry-out orders. Carry-out is about 3x as profitable as dine-in; one office lunch order can be $400-500. |
| 2. What it's really costing them | In their terms: lost orders, wasted ad spend, time | Thousands spent on ads that don't ring the phone |
| 3. Why it hasn't been solved yet | What they've tried, and why it failed | Newspaper: "Don't even get me started" (goes to everybody in town). Radio: "a money pit." Direct mail: "I wouldn't know who to send it to." |
| 4. What's missing | They must state it or agree to it | A targeted way to get his lunch specials in front of the office manager at every office in town |
| 5. What's different now | Your new, clearly different way out (the main part of the offer, not its details) | "I've called all the offices here in town and got permission to send faxes to them every day..." |
Script "Remember, at this point he doesn't know anything about fax advertising. I haven't even talked about my offer yet."
- Why"Why hasn't it been solved?" is where what's missing and what's different are born.
- Howplay detective (Columbo). "How big of an issue is that for you? Is it an issue at all?" then "How come?"
Script "So let me make sure I'm understanding you, Mike. If you could get something in front of all the offices here in town, and you knew who to send it to, what do you think that would do for you?"
- Whyyou don't say "what's missing" out loud. You have to know it, and get them to say it.
Script "I've called all the offices here in town and got permission to send faxes to them every day. And they're excited to get daily lunch specials and coupons, because one of their big questions is 'Where are we going to go to lunch?'"
- Howhe showed a physical sheet with every office name and its headcount. A fax goes only to them, with no postage.
- Why it worked: nobody else was doing fax advertising. If ten people were, he'd have needed a different "what's different."
How it works · point your finger at all three
| Hell (before) | The plan (what's different) | Heaven (after) |
|---|---|---|
| No carry-out orders, expensive ads that don't work | Faxes straight to every office in town | Had to order a new carry-out line; phone rings off the hook |
"We could point a finger to all three of those. I don't care if you write like a sixth grader. If you can make your messaging do that, you're going to convert way better."
More examples from the calls
| Offer | Present pain / what they were fed up with | What's different |
|---|---|---|
| Amazing Selling Machine | Everyone sold traffic; people were fed up with driving traffic | "What if you didn't have to drive traffic?" Tap into millions of buyers with cards already stored. A $10M first launch. |
| iPhone | One sentence (a phone, an iPod, an internet device) and one demo. New and clearly different needs little copy. | |
| Six Weeks to a Secure Man | A course about "true love" won't sell; you can't paint true love | A secure man they can picture. It filled every spot. |
| Relationship offers | A breakup, then "text message terrorism"; missing: the right words | The Second Chance Letter (to get a response, not win them back) and the Clean Slate Method (an apology) |
| Micro webinars | Every drawback of a 60-90 minute webinar, across TIMER | Each drawback becomes a T1 |
The card on Travis's desk: Find out what people are fed up with. Give them a new and clearly different way out. They must be able to see it.
Remember · Where you stand Not across the table, but next to them and slightly ahead, shining a light called insight. Ideally they reach the conclusions on their own. In email, this may take several messages: pain, then cost, then what's missing, then what's different.
Warning Don't yell all the details. And don't jump to "Hey, want to buy my product?" at the tee. "That's a slice or a hook."
(WOW §3)
4.5The Offer T: old plan vs new plan on one page
AHA · From "they need to get excited" to "they need to get over the WALL."
Why it matters "People think that excitement equals conversion, and excitement never equals conversion. It's this wall here, getting them over this hump, that creates the conversion." The Offer T maps a buyer from a problem they can feel to your offer in one picture: the old plan on the left, the new plan on the right, the wall between them. It narrows Hell Island and Heaven Island down so you can go straight from the problem to the offer. Travis built it to "McDonald-ize" his offer process; people using it write strong T3s right away.
How it works · fill it in this order
| # | Box | What goes there | Rudolph |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hell Island symptom | One thing they can see, hear, feel, taste or touch. External + internal. | External: laughed at, called names, no reindeer games. Internal: feels abnormal, like a weirdo. |
| 2 | Heaven Island | The symptoms reversed | Gets picked for the games, no more name-calling; feels normal |
| 3 | Old plan | How they solve it now. Research it or ask clients; don't guess. | Cover his nose with mud |
| 4 | What they don't like about it | Ask "then what happens?" until it spirals. Name the spiral. End with the worst part, external and internal. | The mud comes off; he gets more embarrassed; they laugh harder; he becomes less secure ("the insecurity spiral") |
| 5 | False assumption | The belief that keeps the old plan going. The new belief is often its 180-degree reverse. | "His nose is bad, so he has to hide it" becomes "His nose is good. It's useful." |
| 6 | New plan | External or effortless, not "change yourself" | Use your nose to guide the sleigh (Santa asks him one foggy Christmas) |
| 7 | Objections to the new plan | Expect them; answer each one inside the campaign | "They're just going to laugh at me. They won't let me guide the sleigh." |
| 8 | What they like: the up-spiral | "Then what happens?" up a few levels. End with the best part, external and internal. | He guides the sleigh; everyone wants to be his friend; he saves Christmas; they cheer his name. Internal: from abnormal, to normal, to legend. |
Start at the bottom (1 and 2), climb the left side to the old plan, flip the assumption across the top, then answer the objections at the wall. Numbers match the table above.
Script "Remember, a symptom is something you can see, hear, feel, taste, or touch, or a combination of those."
Script "The important part of this is not the [__] guess. We either want to go and research what they're using as a plan, or, if you're already working with people, look at how they're solving it now."
- Why"Looking at how people solve something now tells you a lot about what they're trying to do, and it tells you a lot about the assumptions that they're making." A guessed plan gives you a guessed assumption, and the whole T rests on it.
Script "If you can attach a name to what happens because they're using the plan, it's super powerful."
- Howhis example is "the Smorgasbord Effect": cramming two years of content into an 8-week course.
Script "We only stay stuck in problems because we're making a false assumption somewhere."
Script "I've seen people lose hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, by making this new plan something you have to change internally to yourself."
- How"Even if it is something internal, if you can bring it outside of yourself, or turn it into a character that you can fight against..." Willpower is internal. Hormones feel external, especially once named: "Herman, the hungry hormone." Calm Herman down and you don't rely on willpower.
- Why"If you tell a woman she's got to change herself to help the relationship, you're not going to convert nearly as much as if you give her some words to say. That's why everybody's so into hacks."
- When"In cold ads or first dates, we want to be very tactical." Deeper change can come later.
Script "He questions. He's like, 'I don't know about this Force thing.' And trust me, this is what your prospect's going to do with your plan."
- WhyLuke is the realistic Rudolph. Obi-Wan's plan is three words ("Use the Force"), and much of Star Wars is Luke learning to trust it. Those doubts become emails, page sections or steps in your plan.
How it works · putting the T to work
- Writing a campaign: symptom → the plan they've been using → why it gets worse → the assumption → the new plan. "This almost writes your whole T3 and your campaign." Sample opener: "Hey, are you a reindeer that's always getting laughed at? Are they always calling you names?... We try to cover up our noses. That d*mn mud always comes off."
- A sales call or chat: "What's the problem?" (go deeper until it's something they can see or touch) → "How are you solving it now?" → "What's that do?" → "Is this something you want to fix now, or later?" → "Well, here would be my plan for you" → walk up to the identity and reputation payoff.
- Several Offer Ts: different segments may use different old plans (weight loss: willpower and eating less, or Travis's own "I'm just going to run it off," which made him hungrier). Build a T per old plan. Your own plan doesn't change, only how it fits against theirs.
- Contrast and metaphor: "People can instantly get contrast." The leaky bucket: a prospect says "traffic is my problem." "If traffic was water and you're carrying a bucket around that had holes in it, and say that water's costing you $50 a gallon, would it make sense that if we plug the holes up, we'd do a lot less running around?... So my plan for you would be: let's fill the holes in our conversion bucket first."
Story · Draw it first "I never start writing until I can draw it out." Travis draws the Rudolph story as a comic strip: the old plan, how it made things worse, the new plan, then the external result and the internal change. On the homework: draw the before, the after, and what's different in between. "If you can't draw it, don't start writing." (The yield sign: people who drew it with crayons remembered the new colors; people who were told didn't.)
Warning
- Don't sneer at the old plan ("dumb*ss reindeer Rudolph"), even though it rests on a false assumption.
- Don't stop at the external result. Every story has an internal result too; map both on both sides.
- Don't limit yourself to five items per column. There's no limit.
- Don't assume they'll say yes like Rudolph did.
(OT §1-7, Putting it to work; FAP §4; WOW Mindset)
4.6The elastic gap: killing the sharks (TIMER)
AHA · From handling objections WHILE pulling them in to killing the sharks BEFORE the boat
Why it matters After what's missing and what's different, you're only 50-60% of the way there. Between Hell Island and Heaven Island is water full of sharks: their objections. "It would be lovely if we just showed them what's missing and what's different, and they said, 'Oh, I want it.' That's not the way humans work." The gap is "elastic": it stretches the more your offer looks like what they've seen before, so you need more words and more shark killing. The more clearly different it is, the narrower the gap.
How it works · TIMER: every objection falls into one of five
| Letter | Objection | The question in their head | Example from the calls |
|---|---|---|---|
| T | Time | How much time will this take me? | Chainsaw vs axe: a couple of hours to learn, then you cut a tree in a quarter of the time |
| I | Identity | How do I see myself if I do this? | His big SUV fits his value (safety for family). A "green" person would hate it. |
| M | Money | What will it cost? | $40 a week per restaurant vs $1,000+ newspaper ads that don't ring the phone, and $400-500 lost per office order |
| E | Energy | How much effort? What's the pain of change? | "You're probably going to cuss me when you start writing these emails" |
| R | Reputation | How will this make me look to others, especially if I fail? | A wife on a diet: "What will my husband think if I change how we shop?" |
How to answer any shark: always in relation to what the problem is already costing them. You don't need to be the best, only better than what they're doing now. You may be pricier but save them time. Not every letter will line up.
Script "We never have to outrun the bear. We just have to outrun what they're already doing."
- Howask how they handle it now. Partner: "I don't want to handle all these responses." Travis: "How are you getting people in now? What do you do when they don't show up? When they show up but don't buy?" "So you're already kind of tapping."
Script "I'm never selling my thing. I'm selling against their current plan."
- Whypeople only change when the old plan clearly fails them. "We just have to outrun our friend, and the friend is whatever they're using for a current plan."
Script "Rebecca, you're running a martial arts studio, you've got kids, a busy schedule. Let's have a frank discussion. Are you going to be able to block out the time to do this?"
- Whywhen will Pat believe you about the sharks: before you try to get her in the boat, or while you're pulling her in? Before. Once you're pulling, you look like you have an ulterior motive.
How it works · kill them in the offer, not in the conversation
- The best case: what's different already crushes the objections. "The sturdier my bridge, the less he'll want to test it."
- Done-for-you offers work so well because they kill most TIMER objections at once.
- Identity and reputation are the sharks nobody handles, and they're often the ones killing your conversions.
- Bring negatives out yourself, then make up for them (Little Rock is a pain to fly into, so Travis pays for the hotel suite).
- "Don't let tappers handle objections. Kill the sharks in the offer and the five timers before the prospect ever reaches the tapper."
Story · Obi-Wan and the Force Obi-Wan's offer is "Use the Force." If Luke had said "Okay!" and blown up the Death Star, it would've been a short movie. He first trains blindfolded with the lightsaber. That path is the shark killing. Agora's method is the same: new copywriters focus on the big idea (what's missing and what's different); the rest of the sales letter is killing sharks.
Story · Heaven Island: listen, don't sweeten "Jimmy, I've got a million dollars over here, why aren't you swimming? ... I'll put $2 million on there! Are you not serious about making money?" The mistake: you can't hear him, so you raise the prize and blame him. He's yelling, "There are sharks!" The fix: shut up and listen. A helicopter? He's afraid of heights. A raft blueprint? He's been burned by blueprints that need bamboo, and there's none on his island. A boat? "Is it gas or electric?" (a buying question). Gas makes him sick, so offer electric for a bit extra. "Now we've just collaborated."
Story · The nurses (the shark) For a health-coaching offer aimed at nurses fed up with healthcare, the big objection only showed up through conversations: they've never had to get clients. So the real offer became how to help them get clients.
Story · "Every piece of land in my paper is over $30,000." "I think you're full of sh*t... you're telling me I can buy land for a grand?" That's the shark. The fix wasn't the offer; it was explaining the mechanism (mailing landowners who are behind on property taxes). Once the finger pointed at the plan, conversions popped.
Story · The Fed-day trade A stock-advice program kept getting "How much trading do I have to do every month?" Prospects thought they'd have to become day traders. The real play was 20-30 minutes around the Fed rate announcement. Once the marketing used that as an advantage, sales popped.
Variation · When to show the price Wax On says show the price early: "I present mine either at the beginning or right after what's missing and what's different," so they "have the heart attack early" (in a Rainmaker campaign, they see the order form from day one). Second Helping keeps the price out of the T1 and brings it in only at the T3, after they qualify. Millionaire Math shows only the monthly price until they say yes. They agree on the main point: the price is never a surprise dropped after a stack of benefits. Wax On is about a campaign to a whole list (the price is part of the pre-selling); Second Helping and Millionaire Math are about one-to-one taps, where the T3 is the first place an offer appears at all. Full details on the T3 in Stage 5 and on payment plans in Stage 7.
Script · Why price early "Most marketers stack benefits, then drop '$6,000' at the end. The scales slam," and you get "Let me think about it" and "Do you have credentials?" Harpoon the shark early. "Have you flipped your ever-loving mind? $8,000?" Then later in the campaign: "Well, son of a b*tch. How do I get started?"
Warning Don't raise the prize or blame them ("you're just not committed") when they won't swim. And don't handle objections while you're pulling them into the boat.
(WOW §4, §7, BPW §05, FAP §3-4, DPT §5, FUT §01, §07, T3P §6, OMM §3)
4.7CAP: Child, Adult, Parent
AHA · From leading with the MECHANISM to leading with the WANT
Why it matters Emotion has to come first. Most people write backwards, leading with the mechanism ("my seven-step list") instead of the benefit. CAP runs through every bullet, email and campaign. Once you know the currency, most of a campaign is handling Parent objections.
| Part | Voice | What it does |
|---|---|---|
| C · Child | "I want that" | The overt benefit. Emotion. |
| A · Adult | "How does it work? How is it different?" (finger to the temple) | The mechanism. Just enough to justify. |
| P · Parent | The judge, hands on hips | Objections to the plan. Most of the later campaign. |
Script "We call it capping off a bullet. Most people write their bullets backwards. They start with the mechanism first."
- Howbenefit first, then the how, then a touch of objection handling. A Child email still has a little Adult and Parent; an Adult email still has a little Child.
How it works · CAP across a whole campaign (the Social T3 case) Leg 1, Child: an overt-benefit post that makes them want it. Leg 2, Adult: posts that explain how it works. Leg 3, Parent: a live session that anchors the price and kills objections. Then back to the Child with sliced posts until a breakthrough. (Full case in Stage 5.)
Story · The barbecue face Travis posts a goofy "barbecue face" picture on purpose. It tells people he's "a junior high idiot" and that's what they'll get. It repels some people, which is the point: it handles an objection with no offer on the table.
Remember The order is Child, Adult, Parent. Miss the first trigger and the reader never gets to the second.
Warning Don't start with the mechanism.
(BPW §05, INF §03, ST3 §2-4)
4.8Shine the flashlight: build the offer from what they already have
AHA · From creating NEW PRODUCTS to moving the FLASHLIGHT
Why it matters Many successful people are successful in spite of themselves. Their copy shines the light on the big, vague promise ("scale to seven figures") while the thing buyers actually want sits in one bullet point. You build a stronger offer without creating anything new, which matters because re-engineering the product kills scalability. "You can either spew out a lot of words and a lot of copy, or you can innovate your offers."
How it works · where to point the flashlight
| They already have | Reframe it as |
|---|---|
| A Rolodex of suppliers, one bullet point | A 20-year shortcut that saves you $15K on one bad purchase |
| Answering customer emails forever | A VIP hotline or priority email support for the next six months |
| Weekly calls that continue after the program ends | A results-based guarantee: "I'll work with you until you get the result" |
| A payment program | An implied guarantee: "You must really believe it" |
| A template buried in the deliverables | A named tool, told as a story (the neighbor letter) |
| Testimonials | The real currency (Amazon rankings, not "multi-figure business") |
| Ready-made campaigns in a gym SaaS they never mention | "We want you back. We're including these four campaigns." |
| A twelve-week course | The format as a benefit, or compressed into a VIP day |
Script "Took me 20 years to vet these vendors. Blew through tens of thousands of dollars with the wrong ones. I'm going to hand you a 20-year shortcut that's probably going to save you 15 grand off one bad purchase."
- Whyit was one tiny bullet point in his copy. Asking "How long did it take you to get that?" uncovered its value.
Script "So if somebody buys your thing and emails you, how long will you answer them for?" "Forever." "Okay. Why don't we position this as a VIP hotline? Six months."
- Whysomething they already do, renamed, can be worth more than the product.
Script "If after six weeks you haven't got this result, I'll work with you until you do, as long as you're doing everything we put in there."
- Whybig-ticket buyers don't want their money back. They don't want to waste time and energy. Travis doesn't offer money-back guarantees.
- Howask, "Do you just stop taking their questions after six weeks?" They usually keep helping anyway.
Script "What people are really buying a lot of times is certainty."
- Whythe magic pen. "Pay $10K now and I'll ship it" is a hard sale. "When it arrives, write me a check for a million" isn't. Results-based guarantees work the same way.
Script "It's not changing what you do, it's changing who you do it for."
- Whymaking it appeal to everybody forces the price down. A more specific, hair-on-fire problem raises the value.
Script "Sometimes what we're really selling is not what we think we're really selling."
- Story: Harlan's T3 to his keto group ("Would you like to become a keto coach?") put 19 people in. It was an identity offer, not a keto offer.
- Howthe three-beer rule. What would they say they really want after three beers or three glasses of wine?
Script · "Give me ___ and I'll give you ___." A tool for finding the offer, not a line you must print.
| Vague | Bullseye |
|---|---|
| "Give me $6,000 and I'll show you how to maximize the profits in your business." | "Give me $6,000 and I'll give you a way to turn your email list into $500 to $5,000 sales." |
| "Give me $2,500 and I'll show you how to find true love." | "Give me $2,500 and I'll show you how to get on three dates in the next six weeks with mentally, emotionally, and even financially secure men." |
The first blank isn't always money. It can be time, energy or reputation: "Give me three days of your life, three days away from your family... and I'll give you a way to turn your email list into $500 to $5,000 sales." Check that it "makes appropriate sense." No hype needed.
How it works · other ways Travis lifts an offer
| Move | Example |
|---|---|
| Charge for what they already do free | A six-month priority email hotline |
| Legacy bonus | Logins for the buyer's immediate family; works with 50-60-year-old men in stock, real estate and land investing (from a buyer: "I want to do this with my two oldest sons") |
| Reposition to a group | An SEO package as the answer to millennials' problems |
| VIP experience | Someone waiting with a sign, a limo, a glass of champagne |
| Compress the time | Zoom sessions instead of a 6-8 week course; 2-day VIP intensives; virtual VIP days |
| Change the terms, not the thing | Land bought for about $500 sold at 30 payments of $99 |
| Turn a weakness into a strength | "Instead of saying 'you have to clear the trees,' I'll say 'you get to sculpt your own tree line.'" A dirt road means people won't drive by all the time. |
Story · The neighbor letter Buried in a land program's deliverables. Travis FedExed it to four neighbors on a Friday. By Monday all four had called, with two offers. Purchase agreement signed Tuesday. Nobody lies awake about scaling to seven figures; they lie awake about the property they can't sell.
Story · The $40K VSL that flopped A well-produced relationship VSL with a celebrity told women "you have to change yourself." A man in India whose first VSL "sounded like a robot was reading it" did millions, because he gave buyers exactly what they really wanted: "tell me the words to say." Travis calls this "dark mojo": whatever buyers say in surveys, what they buy is "tell me the words to say."
Story · The Amazon outsourcing offer A student sold "how to outsource your Amazon business." His calls showed buyers were time-crunched and had no SOPs. He already had a Philippines team and the SOPs. New offer: take three jobs off their hands, $25,000 for a year. The first prospect thought it was per quarter and still wanted it, so the price went to $40,000, and it sold. Don't pigeonhole people into the offer you have now.
Remember · Testimonials "Testimonials are largely for $47 informational things, not transformational things." Use one or two stories ("the rest of the story") as hand-raisers. A wall of testimonials can hurt conversions, and fewer keeps you clear of FTC trouble. (The Social T3 case did run testimonials back to back near the end of a campaign, to help people decide; see Stage 5.)
Remember · "Too expensive." It usually means "you haven't hit my hot buttons, buddy." When you hit them, people say "I've got to move some money around." Price follows identity, certainty and terms, not the product.
Warning
- Don't create new products in the first three dates.
- Don't only sell the big transformation. "Fingerpointy, nitty-gritty" items are often the best stuff, because nobody dimensionalizes them.
- "No amount of great copy saves a bad offer" ("you can't polish a turd").
- Don't package hope as a transformation and charge transformation prices.
- You can't just slap a zero on a video course. A $2,000 product is fine when it's built from watching where buyers get stuck, not "made up in a corner."
(BPW §07, BQA §08, FUT §09, KIS §5, T3P §4, WOW §7, 5P §2, FAP §4, §13, ST3 §8)
4.9Who is easy to help: triggers and binary qualifiers
AHA · From "who could use this?" to "who did we help EASILY, and what made them reach out?"
Why it matters "Transitions and triggers are what cause more conversions than what we do." Something happens in a buyer's life (a crossing point), and that's what makes them reach out, not "the magic NLP." Knowing exactly who is easy to help, and what triggered them, gives you the symptoms for your T1 and the yes/no questions for your T2.
How it works · the bucket-of-poo test
- Picture one real client you loved, who paid well and was easy to help. If you market for a client, ask the client, and don't let them stay general: "What was their name? What business? How many transactions?"
- What situation were they in? What happened that made them reach out (the trigger)?
- "If your life depended on getting someone a result, but you could pick two or three criteria, which criteria would you use? Do not skip this step." (Imagine someone holding a bucket of poo over your head, ready to dump it if you don't get this person a result.)
- Turn those criteria into one or two binary qualifiers: facts a person can answer yes or no with confidence, and point a finger at.
- Symptoms go in the T1. The binary qualifier and the currency question go in the T2 (Stage 5).
Script "It has to be binary. You can't say, 'Are you really motivated to make six figures?' because that's not a binary question."
- How"Either a yes or a no. They can point a finger to it." Fewer people reply, "but they're way more qualified."
Script "I'm just a screwdriver. I'm a Phillips screwdriver. Tell me what your screw looks like."
- Whyif they have a slotted screw, you're not a fit, and that's fine. "I'm useless for you" (or "I'm most useful for...").
Binary qualifier examples from the calls
| Business | Binary qualifier |
|---|---|
| Travis's agency | Using Infusionsoft or another expensive cart (his "killer question"); has a customer database |
| Dietitian coach | Accepts insurance (a bigger, established practice) |
| Workshop / VIP day | Spending $300 or $1,000+ a day on Facebook ads |
| Webinar optimizer (Joe) | Using WebinarJam or similar AND paying for traffic; "Do you have paused ads in your account that used to be profitable?" |
| Financial advisor coach | In a city of 100,000 people or more |
| Amazon program | One product making at least 20 sales a day (backs out roughly six figures) |
| Email Mojo | 500+ opens and at least a $500 offer |
| Fulfillment automation | 50 or 100 new customers a month; a team of 3-5 with one decision maker |
| Financial security for solopreneurs (Chris) | A service business charging by the hour, in business at least 5 years (has a warm market) |
Script "People will lie more about the money. They won't necessarily lie about how many opens they have or how many sales a day they're making on Amazon."
- Howask about the activity behind the revenue, not the revenue. When you do ask directly: "We don't have anything against newbies. This is best for people already doing six figures."
Stories · finding the trigger
- Truck drivers (Dan Kennedy). A struggling mail-order bride service dug into its buyers. A huge majority of long-term buyers were truck drivers. That changed everything.
- Tempur-Pedic. Selling a good night's sleep wasn't working. Customers said Aunt Gertrude's neck or back pain went away. Repositioned as relief from back and neck pain, "the popcorn started popping."
- "Gee mommy, you're squishy." A weight-loss VSL opening on what a little girl said. A reputation trigger you can point at.
- Fit pros. Divorced businessmen getting back into dating were their most qualified buyers. The subject line that kept working: "Did you miss dinner again?"
- The nurses. In a health coaching offer, about 60% of buyers turned out to be registered nurses, on a list that wasn't a nursing list. Nobody knew that going in.
- The electrician (2009). A 20-year electrician lost all his business in the recession. Travis had him pull old invoices and call past customers about jobs they'd put off. Business came back.
- The weight-loss question. "Have you been trying to lose 50 pounds for more than 5 years?" moved buyers from a $400 four-week offer to a $1,600-1,800 longer one. But it sounds critical, so: "Did you have a situation that happened that caused you to gain 50 pounds that you've been trying to take off for five years or more?" "Give them somewhere else to point the blame."
- "If there's a hindrance, then there's usually a market that opens up." An untaken idea: a weight-loss program for people who can't work out (wheelchairs, accidents, bad backs, bad knees). A coach's seated leg-lift videos blew up with exactly those people.
Warning
- "Want to lose some weight" isn't binary, and it isn't enough motivation.
- The longer someone has been in pain without solving it, the harder they usually convert.
- Don't fear narrowing your market. Test the numbers, but keep them binary.
(T3P §8, TP Q&A, DPT §5, BQA §04)
4.10Research toolkit, part C · Find the buyers' pain
Parts A and B (Stages 1-2) were about the partner. Part C is about the partner's buyers: the hot button, the old plan, and the sharks you'll build the offer around.
Why it matters "I'll chastise copywriters if they go into a corner and mentally m*sturbate about what's going on with our people. You can figure it out in one day, or take 60 days trying to think it out." Research gives you a starting angle in a day; the T1 and T2 replies (Stage 5) confirm it.
Step 1 · Start inside the partner's business (fastest, most reliable)
| Source | What you take from it |
|---|---|
| Ask the partner: "What triggers people to reach out to you?" and "Who's easiest to help?" | Triggers, and the ideal buyer (4.9) |
| Their testimonials | What buyers actually celebrate (rankings, not "a seven-figure business") |
| Past sales calls, strategy-session recordings, sales notes | What buyers were really after. Read between the lines for what they're really trying to say. One client was selling a $12,000 program; once the offer matched what buyers wanted, they made $40,000 sales. |
| Their webinar and sales page | What already sells. "Turn it on its side." Cut the "we're so awesome" parts. |
| Their existing marketing | If it sells future gain, reverse it to find the present pain |
| Where sales actually happen | If their emails get opens but no clicks, ignore the emails and look where people buy |
| Their customer list (RFM, segments) | Who actually buys (the nurses) |
Step 2 · Public research on the market
| Source | What you take from it |
|---|---|
| Amazon book reviews, titles and subtitles | The hot button in the market's words. A top hormones book (700 reviews) put it in its subtitle: moodiness. |
| Amazon "also bought" | What this audience already buys |
| Search and keyword data | What people type over and over ("symptoms of a panic attack") |
| Forums sorted by replies and views; Facebook groups by likes and comments | What gets people talking |
| Quote sites ranked by likes | A popular email came from a quote: a relationship should be between two people, but someone keeps getting in the way |
| Clickbait and political YouTube titles | Trigger words |
| Magazines in the niche | What's popular and what people want |
| Where people get emotional and angry | What's behind it. Marketers raging at Facebook were really upset about losing control. |
Step 3 · Talk to real people (when the offer isn't dialed in)
- Get on the phone or live chat, even though the end goal is phoneless. "You can figure out your offer in three months, or in three days."
- A moderator in a live webinar chat: answer their question first, then "What's happening in your business that has you considering a change?"
- Interview your ideal person for pain points (Travis's first Mojo man, Bob Grant: "Bob, I wonder if you could do me a favor"). Pay them if you have to (Keith's HR interviews).
- A small dinner with two or three buyers. Buy them a couple of beers, and listen.
Step 4 · Fill in the Offer T (4.5) from what you found: the symptom, the old plan and what they dislike about it, the false assumption, your new plan, the sharks.
Step 5 · Write it as a hypothesis, then test it Your best guess becomes the short T3 and the first T1. "Throwing spaghetti against the wall doesn't take any brilliance. What takes a little intelligence is when a noodle sticks, throw more of that kind of noodle."
Remember · Wallet out beats survey "A survey without their wallet halfway out, people will tell you what they think the right answers are." "There's a difference between when they have their wallet halfway out and them just telling you what sounds good." In 2016 the polls said one thing; at the machines people voted differently. Carlos's survey got 130 replies from a 650-person list: a great sign of a good relationship, but it doesn't tell you if they'll buy.
Story · Breakups, not dating Selling dating sites, Travis heard "I just broke up" about 50 times before it clicked. Breakup clicks cost under five cents vs $5 for dating, with 10-cent opt-ins. Then readers said "I don't want to date, I want to fix things." He asked them, and was swamped.
Warning The first thing people tell you is not the most important. And don't build the T3 from first answers.
(WOW §7, FAP §4, INF §05, BPW §04, FUT §07, §09, BQA §01, §04, KIS §3, DPT §5, COA Q&A, T3P §8)
4.11Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Carlos (5P) | What if they only sell luxury, like Lambos? | Everything solves a present pain. Find it, just don't get saleslettery about it. Create the gap. |
| Anthony (5P) | Does Beamer work for services, not info products? | Yes. "We're never selling the thing." Find what they're fed up with. Check service costs and negotiate. |
| (WOW) | How deep is the present pain: surface business pain, or the emotional layers underneath? | Start with the surface symptom you can point to (an empty calendar). The next step goes deeper: what is it really costing them, and why hasn't it been solved? |
| (WOW) | Is "what's different now" something I ask them, or tell them? | You introduce it; it's your plan. But you stand next to them, slightly ahead, so they come to the conclusions themselves. In email it unfolds over several messages. |
| (WOW) | What's missing vs what's different: is it about my offer, or their pain? | Both are born from "Why hasn't it been solved yet?" What's missing is what they lack. What's different is your new way. |
| (WOW) | For a done-for-you service, does the mechanism matter? | Done-for-you works because it kills TIMER objections. Still find what's clearly different about you, starting from their world. |
| (WOW) | How do copywriters find the right pain without guessing? | Get on the phone, use live chat, read past calls, Amazon reviews, quote sites, forums and groups. Then throw spaghetti and double down on what sticks. |
| Kevin (BPW) | How should CAP be structured across a campaign? | CAP is in every piece. Find the overt benefit and mechanism first; after that, most of the campaign handles Parent objections. |
| Chin (BPW) | How do I shape the offer without creating new products? | Shine the flashlight on what they already deliver. Upsell the same thing, bigger or faster. |
| Chris (T3P) | My done-for-you clients have an axe in their back, not a thorn. How do I address that? | If it's a bleeding neck, lead there. They don't want the funnel; they want what it creates. Find their Hell Island, and picture one real client. |
| (T3P) | Is it the same pain for everyone selling funnels, copy or ads? | The pain shows up as different symptoms. Name the specific symptom (salespeople without leads, four people doing billing), not "profits." |
| Chris (T3P) | Higher-level clients aren't desperate; they just want a funnel. | Go deeper: "How come? What's happened?" There's almost always a trigger. If there isn't, they may not be your avatar. |
| (T3P) | Do you call out "the testicle" (the real, embarrassing problem) in a public T1? | Sometimes, with humor or less frontally. Usually it's the present pain; going deeper uncovers how it affects their life. |
| Rebecca (T3P) | Must "give me blank" always be a price? | No. It can be time, energy or reputation: "Give me three days of your life..." |
| Chris (T3P) | Symptoms vs the currency question? | Symptoms go in the T1. The binary qualifier and currency go in the T2. Knowing who's easy to help lets you work back to the symptoms. |
| Debbie (KIS) | My partner only has one program. What's the ongoing offer? | The deliverable isn't the offer. The same problem in a new format or modality isn't new. |
| Damian (KIS) | Is a related fitness program a new offer? | Close is fine (abs to arms). Further away, let the test decide. Prefer offers they've sold. |
| Damian (KIS) | How do I turn a trading platform's features into benefits? | Think person, not product. "It's for all traders" is "the kiss of death." Pick one specific trader, find what they want and who they want to become. |
| Carlos (KIS) | How do I learn about an e-com company's buyers? | Start with recent buyers, focus on one product and the problem it solves (sleep, not "sleep recharge"). Ask them to buy. |
| Matthew (INF) | What's the hot button for side-gig affiliate marketers? | Control and autonomy: send an email before work, watch sales come in on your lunch break. The slot machine thrill, without paying each pull. |
| Damian (INF) | Separate T3s for different hot buttons, or one? | It depends on the plan. Same plan: one T3. Different plan: a different T3. Pull back from your tap data to see the groups. |
| (FUT) | How did you turn $500 offers into $2,000? | Repositioning, charging for what they already give free, legacy bonuses, and specializing who it's for. |
| (FUT) | Would you get on a call for a brand-new offer? | Absolutely. One-on-one is the fastest way to find the objections. "If they say 'Oh, that sounds like a good offer,' I know I failed. If they say 'How do I get that?', I know I've got a good offer." |
| James Pilman (COA) | How do I find the angle for my own product? | Find the problem their audience has that nobody serves (his long-distance-relationship product). |
| Eric (COA) | I'm an illustrator for executives. How do I build the back end? | Use the drawings to sell, not just decorate books. Like the doodle-video pioneer: do the first piece free, split-test it, then take about 3% of sales. Lease the IP, don't sell it. |
4.12Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Sell what they're really buying | Sell deliverables, modules or "a proven process" |
| Lead with present pain they can point a finger at | Sell future gain or vague feelings |
| Point out the pain | Cause it or rub it in (lighting the fire on Hell Island) |
| Dimensionalize every number | Leave a percentage as a feature |
| Find the identity and reputation hit underneath | Stop at "freedom," "safety" or "retirement" |
| Research or ask how they solve it now | Guess the old plan |
| Get them to state or agree to what's missing | Yell the details of your offer too early |
| Make the new plan external or effortless | Make it "change yourself" |
| Kill the sharks (TIMER) before the boat | Handle objections while pulling them in |
| Answer objections against what they do now | Try to be the best in the world |
| Cap every bullet: Child, Adult, Parent | Start with the mechanism |
| Shine the flashlight on what they already have | Create new products in the first three dates |
| Use the market's words and stories | Write the offer alone in a corner |
| Draw the before, the after and the plan first | Start writing without a clear picture |
4.13Worksheet · Build the offer
1. The picture (draw it first)
| My answer | Can I point to it or draw it? | |
|---|---|---|
| Before (Hell Island): what are they fed up with right now? | ||
| After (Heaven Island): what do they really want? ("Put a couple of glasses of wine in them") | ||
| What's different now (the mechanism in between) |
2. The decision path
| Step | My answer |
|---|---|
| Present pain (the symptom, in their words) | |
| What is it really costing them? (money, time, relationships) | |
| What have they tried? Why didn't it work? | |
| What's missing (that they'll agree to) | |
| What's different now (one sentence) |
3. The Offer T
| Box | My answer |
|---|---|
| Symptom, external | |
| Symptom, internal (identity and reputation) | |
| Old plan (researched, not guessed) | |
| What they don't like about it, then what happens? (2-3 loops) | |
| Name of the spiral | |
| Worst part, external / internal | |
| False assumption | |
| New belief (try the 180-degree reverse) | |
| New plan (external or effortless? If internal, what character or tool carries it?) | |
| Best part, external / internal | |
| A metaphor that makes the new plan click |
4. Currency and identity
| Prompt | My answer |
|---|---|
| What they say they want (general) | |
| What's under it? ("What's important to you about that?") | |
| The identity or reputation hit underneath | |
| Three currencies to interlock | |
| Have / do / be: what they get to do and be afterwards |
5. TIMER: every shark, answered against the cost of the problem
| Shark | Their objection | My answer | Where it goes (T1, T3 FAQ, follow-up) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Time | |||
| Identity | |||
| Money | |||
| Energy / pain of change | |||
| Reputation |
6. Flashlight and value
| Prompt | My answer |
|---|---|
| Buried items they already deliver, reframed | |
| Give me ___ (money, time, energy, reputation) | |
| ...and I'll give you ___ (specific, sixth-grade words) | |
| Who is easiest to help (one real client) | |
| Their trigger (what made them reach out) | |
| Binary qualifier #1 / #2 |
Pre-write checklist
4.14Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 5 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| Your offer lists modules or features | 4.1 What they're really buying |
| Your T1 says "frustrated," "struggling" or "next level" | 4.2 Present pain |
| People like it but don't buy | 4.3 Identity and reputation, 4.6 Sharks |
| You can't explain why the old way fails | 4.4 Decision path, 4.5 The Offer T |
| You hear "too expensive" or "let me think about it" | 4.6 Sharks and price, 4.8 Certainty |
| You want to build a new product | 4.8 The flashlight |
| You're guessing what the market wants | 4.10 Research toolkit C |
Run the Campaign: T1, T2, T3 (Process)
What this stage settles: getting hand raisers from the partner's list, finding out what they're really buying in short conversations, delivering the offer, and reading the numbers so you know exactly what to fix.
Why it comes here: the Phoneless Sales Machine is your edge, "a simpler, superior process," not your copy. But it only works on top of Stages 3 and 4: a list that likes the partner, an offer that already sold, and a present pain you can point to. Tapping (Stage 6) only works on balls this stage has moved near the hole.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 3: a test agreed, a login, a reply inbox you control, tracking.
- Stage 4: you can draw the before and after; you know the pain, the old plan and the main sharks; a first-guess short T3.
Come back to this stage when: a T1 gets few replies, hand raisers don't answer the T2, people get the T3 and don't buy, or you're tempted to write ten emails ahead.
5.0Stage at a glance
| Step | Name | Who gets it | Its job | Typical form |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| T1 | Hand raiser | The whole list, group or segment | Get the right people to reply. An invitation with overt benefit. No link. | Email, post, letter, text, a box insert |
| T2 | Qualifier | Only those who replied | A question or two; find their currency, whether you can help, and whether it's the right time. "This is where the sale happens." | Reply thread, Messenger, text |
| T3 | The offer | Only those who qualified | The details: price, what happens, when. Ends with "Just reply back: I'm in." | A short Google Doc (2-3 pages), a plain notepad file, sometimes a call booking or an order form |
The top row is the path. The bottom row is what it means when the numbers fall off at that step (full table in 5.7).
The campaign loop
- Write the short T3 first, to get clear on the offer.
- Send one T1 to the whole buyer list.
- T2 every hand raiser. Slow down. Find the currency and the sharks.
- Send the T3 to those who qualify.
- Log currencies and sharks. The next T1 and the next T3 lines come out of those conversations.
- Read where the numbers drop and fix that one step.
One-line rules
- "Let the market write your marketing."
- "You don't need 10 emails ahead. One T1, one T2 question, one short T3 starts a campaign."
- "Write an invitation, not a sales letter. Less detail gets more replies."
- "The win is not a sale... The win is pulling out more and more information from them." (while dialing in)
- "Never skip the T2."
- "There's no upside to mailing a smaller segment."
- "My banker does not accept open rates."
- "When a noodle sticks, throw more of that kind of noodle."
5.1AHAFrom PLANNING the campaign to letting the MARKET WRITE IT
Why it matters "What we're trying to do here is get our market to write our marketing for us. This sounds like, duh, Travis, of course, but nobody's f*cking doing this." You're not guessing. People who were invited, or have their wallet halfway out, tell you what they really want. Their replies hand you the next T1 and the lines for the T3. Planning five emails up front ignores all of that.
Script "Why don't we just ask the market while they have their wallet out, while they're in pain, what they're looking for and what's important to them? Anybody can do that. Almost nobody does."
Script "This is not about how great of copywriters we are."
- Whyclassically trained copywriters often struggle here because they stitch swipes together and forget there's a person on the other side.
Script "Our next thing is like, where does it hurt? ... 'Well, I didn't get much exercise during this COVID thing, my hip stove up.' That's your next T1. You let your market write your marketing for you."
- Howthe chiropractor example. T1: "I've got time to help a few people who are having trouble getting up and down the stairs because they have hip pain or lower back pain... Would you like some help with that?" T2: "Where does it hurt?" "What happened?"
Script "My next T1 comes out of a conversation that I have."
- Howget one thing going, have conversations, then write the next T1 from what you heard. Tell it as a short story without naming the person.
Script "We all know how to get from our garage to Walmart... If we have to have four maps and five GPSs, we're never going to get there."
- Whyyou don't need the whole campaign planned. You'll know what to do when you see the results, like you'd know to call AAA for a flat tire.
How it works · what to log from every reply Tappers fill a sheet that whoever writes the next T1 reads:
| Column | What goes in it |
|---|---|
| Heaven Island | What they want |
| Hell Island | What they're fed up with |
| Currency | What they're really buying (top 2-3, in order) |
| Sharks | Objections |
| Current plan | What they've tried, and what they don't like about it |
| New angle or T3 line | What this reply gives you |
Story · Why Travis added the T3 He used to skip it. He'd get hand raisers, ask questions, then say "the investment's six grand, what else would you need to know?" He added the T3 to "McDonald-ize" it for people who weren't as good at going deep. Once a T3 is dialed in, the T2 needs fewer questions and a tapper can run it.
Story · Polls vs the voting booth In 2016 the polls said one thing; at the machines people voted differently. Same with buying: "I'd love to buy that" changes once the wallet comes out.
Remember "I would rather have a Google doc as an asset than a rental house." A dialed-in T3 is the asset (Stage 0.1).
Warning Don't plan all the emails before the first one goes out. "We barely write two emails ahead a lot of the times." Don't give a partner 30 emails in a row because they're excited. "We let the market tell us what to do next."
(FAP §1, 5P §2, BPW §06, KIS §2, BQA §01)
5.2The T1: the hand raiser
AHA · From a SALES LETTER to an INVITATION
Why it matters "T1 is a hand raiser. That's all we're trying to do, is get them to raise their hands." The T1 isn't there to convince; it's happening whether they come or not, and you're extending an invitation. A short T1 can make $0 or $100,000, because the money comes from the conversations it starts. And a short T1 is diagnosable: "If we put too much copy in, we can't troubleshoot what the problem is."
Script "Hey, Matt, Ed, Axel and me, we're all going to the new steakhouse. Heard they have an amazing Wagyu beef they're flying in from Australia. And I'll buy you their best 25-year single malt Scotch. If we're not too tipsy, we might go see the new Rock movie. Would you like to come with us?"
- Whythat's an invitation. Most copywriters write the opposite: "Are you sitting home all alone tonight? Are you frustrated..." plus a discount, "and guess how many responses they typically get? None."
- Howsay who's going, what's good about it, the offer, and ask if they want in. "Here's what we've got going on. Here's why it's cool. Here's all the fun we're going to have. Would you like to join us?"
Script "Hey, spring's here. A lot of people are getting back out in the yard, and they've been stove up since COVID... I'm helping a few folks out so they can get all that done. Would you like to join us?"
- Whya back-pain program that had been sold only on its deliverables ("work with me for six weeks"). This T1 leads with present pain.
- Whenfirst email to a list of back-pain ebook buyers.
Script "Hey, we realize that it's not about the money for a lot of you guys. It's really about making sure that no dog ever has to have a shock collar put on, never has to get whapped in the nose with a newspaper... Would you like to be part of this mission with us?"
- Whythe rewritten dog-trainer T1, after buyers kept saying "I don't care about the money."
- Howname the dog if you can. It's more powerful, like Rudolph.
- Whenthe second T1, after T2 feedback showed the real hot button.
The standard T1 (from the T3 Process call): start here unless you're sure nobody is close to the hole
Subject: RSVP Howdy, I'm putting a few folks together at my home for three days and showing them how to take an email list and turn it into $500 to $5,000 sales. We don't use phone calls, webinars, or videos either. Just simple emails and an order form. Obviously they can use their own email list, but I'm also going to show them how to get paid up to 50% doing it for other people's lists. These are almost always five-figure paydays. Would you like to join us? Travis
- Why "RSVP": amazing open rates, and it signals something is happening that wants a reply.
- Why the $500-$5,000 line: people know exactly what will happen. Compare "maximize your profits and get you to the next level."
- Why "no phone calls, webinars, or videos": those are the sharks. He kills them before they think of them.
How it works · the T1 versions in the calls, and when each fits
| Version | Shape | When | From |
|---|---|---|---|
| RSVP invitation | 3-7 short paragraphs, very few details | The first test to a partner's buyers | 5P |
| Overt-benefit invite | 4-5 paragraphs, ends "reply" or "text me here," no link | The Starter Campaign Kit T1 | FAP |
| Offer only | As short as possible: "give me this and I'll give you that," no format or modules | When you want a failed test to tell you something | KIS |
| Standard RSVP | What's happening, the specific result, the sharks killed, "Would you like to join us?" | Your own events and programs | T3P |
| Hair-on-fire choice | Name 2-3 situations they can picture and ask which applies | When "tell me about your situation" gets few replies | BPW |
| One question (trigger point) | "Do you do wine tastings?" | Small lists and cold outreach | TP |
| Heavy-investment invite | Kills the objections inside the T1 (time, travel, price) | Big asks: fly out, $15K VIP day | T3P |
| Social post | An overt-benefit post: "Get in touch by PM and I'll attach details" | A Facebook group | ST3 |
| Thank-you T1 | "Thank you for buying ___. We also have ___. Would you like to hear about it?" | New buyers (Stage 7) | SHC |
| Going-steady T1 | The result you got together + the next challenge + "continue with me?" | People you've already helped (Stage 7) | BT1 |
Variation · Why T1 lengths differ (one line to 7 paragraphs) "The smaller your list is, the shorter your copy needs to be to start engaging them." On a small list or a cold audience, a one-line question gets the conversation started. On a partner's warm buyer list, a short invitation (3-7 paragraphs) works, still with very few details. On a huge list, a very open one-liner "could flood you." Pick the tool for the list size and how warm it is. Every version keeps the same core: an invitation, overt benefit, no link, few details.
Sample · The hair-on-fire T1 (Nathan's restaurant consultant) "Hey, great to see you. A lot of the restaurant owners reaching out to us are usually struggling with one of three issues, or all of them: getting enough people in the restaurant so they don't have to shut the doors, keeping food costs down with inflation, or dealing with partnerships and management so they don't have to be at the store all day. Which of these situations apply to you?"
- Whyit replaced "increase your margins up to 18%," which is soft and hard to picture.
Sample · The VIP day T1 (sold out with one email and one resend to unopens: three spots at $15K, could have sold about ten more)
- "I don't know if you'd be willing to jump on a plane and fly out to California and work with me for a day."
- "If your lead costs are rising faster than your health care premiums, your margins are getting gobbled up faster than brains at a zombie convention..."
- "It would completely make sense if you know these are problems you want to fix but just don't have time to sit through a d*mn 12-week course."
- "I'll have my driver holding up a sign with your name on it when you arrive... Then shoulder to shoulder, you and I will lay out the plan to solve all these problems for you in one powerful day."
- The qualifier is built in ("spending $1,000 a day on Facebook, AdWords or any other ad network"). Every detail is something you can point a finger at.
Sample · The Rainmaker car T1 (about $50K with the T2 and T3) "What kind of car could you buy with one Rainmaker promo to your email list?" "Travis popping by real quick." Results counted in opens (600 opens to $28,000 in under two weeks; 1,300 opens to $83,000 in 14 days). Sharks named: "If you're thinking my list is too old, not responsive enough, or I'm just not a good enough copywriter... I feel you." A pendulum swing: "Let me rub some shiny off" (a recent flop: $8,000 on about 1,000 opens, "but that's still a used car"). Close: "I don't have a fancy sales page. Hope you won't mind. Just reply back to this email."
Sample · Evergreen offers "I'm setting aside time to work with 10 people in July." You can't work with the whole world at once, so capacity is real. A deadline isn't required. (Dean Jackson's cookies: "Would you like me to bake you some cookies?" gets "Don't put yourself out." Holding out a plate of their favorite cookies gets a yes.)
How it works · the T1 rules
- End with "reply back to this email" or "text me here," never a link. Travis's team sends dozens of emails with no links: "we inbox on everything."
- Write it in the partner's voice. It's short and invitational, so it's hard to get wrong.
- Be specific. "How would a sixth grader say it?" The biggest mistake is being too general or using "smart" words (optimize, maximize, compartmentalize).
- Kill the main sharks in it.
- Signal the price range if your list doesn't know it: "This is a 12-month program," or "This isn't free, and it's not even cheap, but it's a lot less expensive than what you're dealing with."
- Mail the whole buyer list, not a sample (5.6).
- If it works, resend it to the unopens. If it's still financially significant, resend again.
Script "The subject line is the bouncer for the nightclub."
- Why"The worst thing you can do is let everybody in, because you have to pay for everybody that comes in." A Facebook ads expert kept getting broke clients from "Are you struggling with Facebook ads?" His best clients' pain was no-shows: "Show-up rates less than 50%?" Newbies won't even notice it.
- Howthe pay-per-open test. Write each subject line as if you had to pay for every open.
Script "My banker does not accept open rates."
- Whygimmick subject lines like "bad news" get opens, then people stop opening because the emails aren't relevant. Travis's best subject line in 2021 was "RSVP." His best now is "offer": lowercase, no punctuation. It presupposes they're ready to buy.
- Howread opens relatively. If the list usually opens at 30% and "offer" gets 10%, they don't want to buy from this person. If it usually opens at 25% and "offer" gets 60%, people want to buy far more than the partner thinks.
Warning
- Don't optimize for hand raisers alone. "Would you rather have a hundred hand raisers and no sales, or one hand raiser and a sale?" 10 hand raisers and 10 buyers beats 100 and 10.
- Don't chase vanity metrics. "I've yet to write a check out of my checking account based off the amount of opens."
- Don't sit in your office for a week writing "the world's greatest T1." You get two pages, few leads, and nothing learned.
- Don't overhype. It just has to make sense.
(5P §2, FAP §2, T3P §4, KIS §2, BPW §04, TP §4, WOW §6, INF §06)
5.3Slice and dice: same offer, many angles
AHA · From repeating ONE BROAD PROMISE to many NARROW ANGLES
Why it matters One audience holds balls of different colors: different situations wanting the same offer. Each angle is a T1 aimed at one color. Each narrow T1 gets fewer replies but converts higher, and together they beat one broad email. They also show you which segment is the gold. "My goal is to convert 100% of the list. Now, I never quite get there."
Story · The hammer store How most people sell hammers: "Big sale on hammers, 30% off." Then: "Haven't seen you in the store yet." Then: "Are you serious about pounding nails?" That's how you burn a list. How Mojo people sell hammers: "Are you building a birdhouse this weekend? ... That plywood is really thin. If you use a big hammer and big nails, you'll bust it. So I've lovingly wrapped up a ball-peen hammer for you." Then: "Is remodeling the bathroom on your honey-do list? ... You can't use a regular hammer on old tile... What you need is a tile hammer with a longer claw." Each email is a situation they can point to; those not building a birdhouse ignore it and might open the tile one. This slice-and-dice converts 20-30% of an entire list on products.
Story · B2B leads "Do you need B2B leads?" got about 20 replies. Asking "what kind?" produced "accountant leads," "roofer leads," and so on. Each slice got 10-12 replies, but running 5-8 of them gave about 90, and one segment converted far more than the rest.
Story · Shoes "Shoe sale" vs "shoes to go with that little black dress," "shoes that go straight from work to a night out with the girls," "shoes that go perfect with jeans." Fewer opens each, more buyers.
How it works · the rules of slicing
- Start at the bullseye, then slice another piece. "When you go for the bullseye, you'll get the people a little outside the bullseye. It's harder to work general and back in." "Do you need more B2B leads?" worked; "Need dentist leads?" converted even better.
- If the bullseye misses, back up, don't go general. Move the T1 earlier in the buying cycle. A video producer's clients only called when they needed a video in two days. Asking what triggers people to reach out showed it was a new product or feature. New T1: "Are you coming out with any new products next quarter?"
- Lick your finger to test the wind. "Are you doing webinars?" "Do you have a $1,000+ offer?" T3 is safe for testing, because only repliers see the offer.
- Throw more of what sticks. "Throwing spaghetti against the wall doesn't take any brilliance. What takes a little intelligence is when a noodle sticks, throw more of that kind of noodle. I see people skip that all the time." Watch sales, not likes or opens, and run the winner until it drops below your daily benchmark.
- Don't forget the angle that hit. He saw a spreadsheet with 1, 1, 5, 0, 1, 0, 1 sales, and they never went back to the angle that made five. "They're telling you that's what you need to focus on."
- Test with two or three voices. Damian asked whether one person's T2 answer is worth a T1. "Go by your gut. With two or three saying it, test the angle; you only lose one email."
- Run two angles when unsure. "Done for you" vs the end result? Run both and let the market decide.
Script "When I see some sh*t sticking on the wall, I feel more of that kind of sh*t."
- Howwhen a segment wins (nurses), slice it again: RNs or LPNs, hospital or home care.
Story · Baseball A .350 hitter makes the Hall of Fame. Expect about one home run per 10 emails; not every T1 has to hit.
Story · Seduction, not mechanics Like a hand on a knee on a date: if they move toward you, do more; if they move away, do something different.
Story · The purple shirt Red shirt on date one, no hand holding. Orange shirt, none. Purple shirt, lots. It would be a mistake to credit the shirt; it's what happened before. One split test of one email ignores the whole path that got them ready. Travis rarely split tests now; he wants quantum-leap breakthroughs, not 10% to 15%.
Quick recap · The Offer Multiplier grid (full version: Stage 7). Slice any offer by Who, What, When, Where, Why, How. Brainstorm several answers per column, pick one per angle. "Has your wife wanted to get that closet organized, and you just never got around to it?" is "way more powerful than 'I do carpentry services.'" One hour of the grid gives you weeks of T1s.
Warning Too specific is possible too. It's like flipping a pancake: too hard and it hits the ceiling, too soft and it mushes over. Listen to the market and slice from there. And don't slice on the very first test with a partner: test what they already buy first.
(WOW §6, KIS §2, FAP §2, §9, 5P §2, OMM §5, PPM Part 8)
5.4The T2: slow down and find the truth
AHA · From RUSHING to the offer to SLOWING DOWN in the T2
Why it matters The sale happens here. People say "Oh my goodness, yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for," and the T3 just gives the details. A stranger who listens gets the truth that a survey never will. When they have to think "what happened in my life that has me considering this," they become internally motivated. And the T2 gives you their currency, which is what every follow-up and the T3 are built on. "The real key to this is slowing down."
Script "Especially when you're dialing in an offer, the win is not a sale... The win is pulling out more and more information from them."
Script "Ann, can you tell me a little bit about your situation?"
- Whyit works "out of the can" most of the time. People coming off the T1 invite already know what you're talking about. Travis calls it his favorite T2 question.
- Howstart general, or narrow it: "Can you tell me about your back pain situation?" or "What had you considering changing what you're doing for pain relief?"
- Whenthe first reply to every hand raiser while dialing in.
Script "Hey Rebecca, good to see you. I know you're hoping to see Ann, but she's out training dogs right now, so I'm giving her a hand. I hope you won't mind. Can you tell me a little bit about your situation?"
- Whytapping as an assistant filters out jerks ("if they're mean to the tapper, get out") and gives people a safe spot to tell the truth. People tell the big name what they think he wants to hear. Travis sometimes pretends to be the tapper on his own programs.
How it works · digging from general to specific
- Ask about their situation and the outcome they want. Paraphrase it back.
- "What's important to you about that?" Keep asking; the first answer is never the most powerful one.
- "What else is important to you?" This is where the real stuff comes out.
- "Is there anything else that's important?"
- Find the worst part and the timing: "Oh, that's terrible. What's the worst part?" "How long has this been going on? When did it last happen? Tell me what happened."
- Summarize all of it, then ask: "If you had to order them, what order would you put them in?"
- Make it safe to name the shark: "You won't hurt my feelings at all, and I promise to keep this between you and me. What's the biggest thing holding you back from jumping in?"
You know you've hit the bottom when they reply "YES" in caps with exclamation points.
Script "The big mistake tappers make is they don't listen. They just ask the next question. It should be like playing catch. You've got to catch the ball and then throw it back."
- Howpick up something they just said and hand it back before the next question. Repeat their exact words with a question mark ("Supplemental income?") to get them to expand. Their wording matters: "supplemental" is not "extra" or "passive."
Sample · The land-investing chat "What's happening in your life that has you considering this land investing program?" "I'm looking for supplemental income." "Supplemental income?" "Yeah, I'm 55, not quite at retirement..." "What's important to you about the supplemental income?" ... "What else is important to you?" "I want something I can do with my wife." Close the loop: "Let me make sure I understand. You want to earn supplemental income, but you want it to be fun and something you can do with your wife." They'll say "That's exactly it," even though you only repeated them. Then ask which matters most ("It's got to be fun") and feed that into all the marketing.
Sample · The wholesaler drill-down "What's important to you about the deals you're wholesaling?" "We don't have a lot of capital." "What's important to you about getting the capital?" "So I can get more deals." "What's important to you about more deals?" "My wife is sick. I need to stay home and take care of her." Then: "You won't hurt my feelings at all. What stops you from getting this done? What have you tried?"
Story · The land course buyer First answer: something fun, because his job was boring ("more Indiana Jones than the PC guy"). Second: time with his wife and kids, a family business ("capital letters with exclamation points"). Third: supplemental income to retire sooner. Ranked, the kids came first. "To me, they're telling me million-dollar stuff," especially if the T3 was all about money. The real identity: a good dad leaving a legacy.
Story · The negligee A woman says the passion has fizzled. You can't draw a picture of that. So: "Tell me what's happening. When was the last time? Tell me about that time." She came out in her negligee, and he told her to move out of the way of the TV during the game. "I don't even rank above a football game." That makes great T1s.
Story · The grumpy back-pain buyer At the end he said, "I'm just not going to give my money to a stranger." The truth on the table: did he know anyone who could help? No. So his choices were live with the pain or let someone he doesn't know help. "We just have to outrun our friend, and the friend is whatever they're using for a current plan."
How it works · sell away from where they are (KIS)
Script "We're never selling the thing that we're selling. We're selling away from whatever they're doing right now. And our job is not to make them wrong or right."
Script "Man, I love real estate. Why in the heck would you even want to look at doing something different than real estate?"
- Whyget on their side first, so they tell you the real reason.
Script "How soon do you want to be home with your daughter? Is this a now kind of thing or a later kind of thing? ... Why is now so urgent? And we haven't even talked about the product yet."
- Why"pre-selling the price." Find what it's costing them in time and family: "How long has it been broken?" "Why fix it now?" "How much longer before...?"
- Story: "We need to fix our sales." How long broken? Three years. Why now? "We haven't paid our founders in six months." "How much longer before you lose one of your founders?" Now $6,000 feels right.
Script "Sounds like you're doing awesome. You should just keep on doing what you're doing."
- Whenthey have no real pain, or say "I'm just looking." Then stop. "It's not about converting everybody. It's converting the people that are ready for it."
Script "Can you remind me what had you looking into this to begin with?"
- Whenplayed like Columbo, when they say "this is expensive, not sure it's for me."
Warning "The big thing we do is we jump too fast." A student kept the T2 short out of fear of losing people, and her T3s didn't convert. Don't assume it's a fit: assume what you have may not be right for them, and let them tell you.
(FAP §3, INF §05-06, KIS §3, BQA §04, WOW §7, BPW §04)
5.5The T2 as a qualifier: "Can I help you?" not "Do you qualify?"
AHA · From TESTING them to HELPING them
Why it matters "Do you qualify?" makes people feel judged and triggers pushback ("we're very selective about who we work with"). "Can I help you?" puts you on their side and lets them sell themselves in. When Travis rewrote all his email T2s this way, "immediately we could see a difference in feeling," and a program that had been hard to sell started to pop. He used to use a harsher qualifier; the softer version runs "so much more smooth."
| Old stance (don't) | New stance (do) |
|---|---|
| "Do you have an email list or a Facebook group?" | "I'm useless to people unless they have an email list or a Facebook group. Are you rolling with one or both of those?" |
| "Let's see if you qualify." | "I'm wondering if I can help you." |
| "You need $300 a day in ad spend." | "This workshop is pretty much only helpful if you're doing $300 a day in ad spend. Are we in the ballpark?" |
The base email T2 (recommended). Written for a tapper replying on behalf of the guru ("Jack"), but it works for you too.
Hi [name], [personalization]. So great to hear from you. My name's Bob. Whew, we've been busy over here. Jack has got his hands full today, so I'm helping him out. I know you were probably hoping to see Jack. Hope you won't mind it's just me.
I'm going to shoot over all the exciting details to you, but before I do, can you help me help you? Jack wants to make sure there's nothing preventing him from getting you the results you want. Would you kindly let me know the answers to these three questions below?
- Why is now the right time for you? What happened in your life or business that makes it important for you to get help with your [blank] now?
- If you were to join us, what outcome would make you happy?
- Is the timing right? Would you be ready to get started now?
Thank you in advance, Bob, for Jack
- Why the personalization: robotic replies kill the magic. Meet them where they are: "So happy to see a new face. Have we run into each other before?" Mention their profile picture or something real.
- Why "I know you were probably hoping to see Jack": it handles the objection before you get it. People reply "So happy to work with you, Bob." Don't play with this line.
- How to adapt Q1 (the currency question; it finds their Hell Island): "What happened with your finances that has it so crucial to look at investment options?" For weight loss or relationships, "life" still works.
- How to adapt Q2: for a physical product, "What criteria is most important to you?"
- Add your 1-2 binary qualifiers (4.9) where they fit.
Script "Super great to see you. I'm excited to send you details, but would you help me help you? I want to make sure there's nothing preventing me from getting you a result. Could you answer these three quick questions for me?"
- Whensomeone replies "send me details." When the qualifying language was reversed this way, it did a lot better.
Sample · The short event T2 "Hey Cody, thank you for connecting. Do you get 500 or more opens on your email list when you send, and at least a $500 offer? If we were to do this together, what outcome would make you happy? Dates are May 5th through May 7th. Do those dates work for you? Do you mind flying out to Arkansas to turn your email list into $500 to $5,000 sales? Let me know and I'll send you the rest of the 411."
- Why reconfirm the dates, even if the T1 had them: otherwise you'll hear "I can't make the dates" at the T3.
Sample · The social T2 (in a DM) "Mind if I ask a question or two to make sure there's nothing preventing me from getting you the results you're after?" Then one or two qualifying questions inside the chat. On social, there's no three-question email.
Sample · Before a call "I'm excited to jump on a call with you, but before we do, would you help me help you? I want to make sure I'm not spinning your wheels." Ask your three questions, then send the T3 with the scheduling link.
When they skip a question "Great to see you. Can you tell me a little bit about your email list?" or "I'm absolutely useless if we don't have an email list or some kind of audience. Are you rolling with one or both of those?" It puts the onus on you.
When they're a little under a requirement (400 opens instead of 500): "Well, maybe you have to send another email or two to get your investment back. If you're okay with that, I'm okay with it. What would you like to do?"
When they don't qualify "Sorry, my timing stinks. I'd be happy to work with you once I can be of use to you." It puts the onus on you, and they often reply that it's them, not your timing.
How it works · channels
| Situation | Travis's call |
|---|---|
| Default | T2 through chat or PM. Both sides get time to think. |
| Want to compress time | A phone or Zoom call is fine, just not the goal |
| Older buyers (50s-60s, real estate) | Email; many don't chat |
| Letters and mailers | "Just text us." More efficient. |
| A text campaign | Keep the whole conversation in text; it forces concise replies. Email to text works; he doesn't go text to email. Moving: "Hey, I want to make sure we don't get cut off and I answer all your questions. Can we move this to text?" Then: "Hey, great to see you. This is Nishant. I'm giving Mr. Expert a hand today, hope you won't mind it's me." Then one easy question. |
| Team access (a medical lab offer) | Fax with a QR code into RingCentral, so the whole team can tap |
| Subscription apps ($20-50/month) | Conversations to dial in the offer, then a G3 order form and traffic |
Variation · One question vs three questions FAP, BPW and KIS teach a T2 of one question ("Can you tell me a little about your situation?") and then digging. The T3 Process and Social T3 calls teach the three-question "help me help you" email with binary qualifiers. The difference is the stage of the offer. While you're dialing in a new offer, use one open question and dig by hand: the data is the prize. Once the offer is dialed in and you know the two or three situations that buy, a standard T2 with 2-3 questions (or binary qualifiers) lets a junior tapper run it. And if you add questions and replies drop, cut back to one (5.7).
Remember · Never skip the T2 Skipping it and going straight to the T3 "pops in some sales sometimes," but nowhere near the level, and you lose your follow-up material. Without the currency answer, your only follow-up is "Did you decide to buy my product?" That's "picking up the golf ball." If you already know they qualify, use an implied T2: summarize their situation back and name their one challenge.
Warning If 100 people raise a hand but only 20 answer your T2, the usual reason is shame: they don't feel they qualify. Open up the T2 and take questions out.
(T3P §5, §8, ST3 §7, BPW §06, INF §06, BQA §04, KIS §3)
5.6The T3: the details and "I'm in"
AHA · From a SALES PAGE to a short, personal DOCUMENT
Why it matters The T3 is a strategy session without the phone. By now they've told you their pain and outcome, so the T3 confirms you can help, removes the last sharks, and asks them to reply "I'm in." A Google Doc T3 "usually converts better because it's very, very intimate, rather than being impersonal like a web page." A credit-card-rewards client tested long and short T3s; the short one won.
Remember · Write the short T3 first Start every partner campaign by writing the short T3 template.
- Whyit forces you to get really clear on the offer before you write the T1. You never start from a blank page: take an offer that already has data, fix the obvious gaps (future gain, no risk removal, no identity play), and let feedback do the rest.
Script "People don't need the details that we think they need, because people aren't buying the deliverables. Most of you came here off a paragraph of copy underneath a video."
- Howquestions and objections from the T2 go into the T3, so the market builds the asset over time.
How it works · the T3 structure
- Personal opener that proves you can help their exact case: "Dude, with your list size and your offer size, this is going to be a cakewalk for me." (A tapper: "This is right up Joe's alley.") If you're not sure you can help, ask another question first.
- Permission and urgency: "Hope you won't mind if I copy and paste all the deets for you... Please let me know if you can make it as soon as possible because..."
- The 411: the big overview first, then narrow down. Repeat the dates ("People are scanners").
- Desire bullets: outcomes, not modules.
- A blunt FAQ: the sharks, answered straight.
- The investment (IVQ): investment, value, qualifier.
- The close: "Just reply back: I'm in."
Sample · The 411 "Here's the 411 for you. On May 5th through 7th, in my home on my big white sofa, I'm putting together six good folks and showing them exactly how to take their email list, or someone else's email list, and generate five- to six-figure paydays with six great, simple-to-write emails, and without needing VSLs, webinars, or phone calls."
- Why "big white sofa": a finger-pointing detail. Point a finger anywhere you can.
- Why "six good folks": part of the thrill is the other people. Use your own personality; don't tone it down for business.
- Evergreen version: "I'm putting 10 people together over the next six weeks" on Zoom. A product: "I've had Rebecca lovingly pack your beauty case with all the lotions and potions..." then list what's in the box. A $10,000 package: "We have [x] of these sitting down in the shipping room. Would you like me to reserve one for you?"
Sample · Desire bullets (less intellectual, more overt Child benefit)
- "I call this the Rainmaker campaign, one of the things you'll walk away with, which you can profit from for years to come."
- "Secrets to getting more applications than you can handle for high-ticket products and services. Not kidding. I've had clients that had to stop emailing so their team can catch up."
- "How to outsource your email writing... it's easier and cheaper to hire out than you might imagine." (This kills the energy shark.)
- "Don't have an email list? List owners will happily pay you 30 to 50% of their profits to run it for them."
- "We use my 60-minute G3 order form. I call it G3 because it makes people go, 'Give me, give me, give me.'" (Named, curious things pull people in.)
Sample · The blunt FAQ Open with: "At the risk of writing you the Constitution, or books longer than the Harry Potter series, I'm going to answer some questions I'm sure you have below." Answer bluntly, with a little flair. Don't blow smoke.
| FAQ | His answer (condensed) |
|---|---|
| Do I need to be a great writer? | No. If you're a great writer, it usually hurts more than it helps. Even a sixth-grade level can trigger buying. |
| How big does my list need to be? | At least 500 openers. "They can't hate you. It's okay if they're lukewarm, but if you burn them, no amount of mojo in the world is going to fix that." |
| Do I need my own product? | It helps; $500-$5,000 works best. He'll help create one in about two hours, or you can sell someone else's. |
| Will it work in my industry? | "As long as there are people with problems on your email list," yes. |
| Are there any bonuses? | Yes. If you have none, get in front of it, or don't mention it. |
| Where and when? | His home in Arkansas. Little Rock is a pain to fly into, so he pays for the hotel suite and feeds you like family. (Bring negatives out yourself, then make up for them.) |
| How do I get a spot? | Reply "I'm in." |
Sample · The investment (IVQ) "If you've got at least 500 opens, it will cost you a fortune to miss. Your investment for Email Mojo is $6,000. Most of my students make that back in six emails, give or take, as long as they've got 500 openers and a $500 product, or a $1,000 product they're promoting as an affiliate at 50% commission." I = the investment. V = "make that back in six emails." Q = "as long as they've got 500 openers..." Payments optional: "If it would help fit your budget better, we can break it up into three payments of $2,200."
Sample · The close "You don't need to send me any money now. If you've read the questions above and meet the requirements, just reply back: I'm in. Then I'll get you set up. First come, first served. After all, I can only put so many butts on my big white sofa. Rooting for you, Travis"
How it works · T3 formats
| Format | When |
|---|---|
| A short Google Doc (2-3 pages) | The default |
| A plain "ugly notepad file" in a DM | Social selling. Pre-frame it: "It's an ugly notepad file, but it'll save me typing." |
| "Would it make sense for us to get on a call?" | Cold outreach, booking a call or a small webinar. The T3 can be the next step, not the full offer. |
| A G3 order form with live chat | Low ticket, high volume, once you know the objections. Don't hand-tap a $99 product for a $20 commission. |
| T3A / T3B | Split-test prices or payment terms quietly, one variable at a time |
Warning
- Don't send a T3 if you're not clear you can help. Ask a question first.
- Don't go cold and formal. "Never underestimate the value of fun."
- Don't sell modules. Sell the result.
- Don't move to an order form until you have the volume and the offer is dialed in.
(T3P §6, FAP §4, 5P §2, BQA §04, ST3 §1, §6, PPM Part 8, KIS §5, BPW §03)
5.7Read the numbers: troubleshoot one step at a time
AHA · From "the campaign failed" to "THIS STEP failed."
Why it matters "Half of winning in these campaigns is understanding how to troubleshoot what went wrong." The Phoneless Sales Machine is troubleshootable: each step has its own job, so where the responses drop tells you what to fix. Fix that step, not the whole campaign. "If we sent out 'Hey, do you do wine tastings?' and nobody replied back, well, we got the wrong trigger point, and we would know immediately."
How it works · where it drops, and what to fix
| What you see | What it means | Fix |
|---|---|---|
| Angry replies: "Who's this? Where's my refund?", one-word answers, or nothing | Bad list, or the list doesn't like the partner (the 60%) | Abandon ship, even after one email. "I'm an investor. I'm not a savior." |
| Friendly replies ("Oh, I love that guy. What do you have going on?") | The relationship is good | Keep going |
| "Just tell me the details. How much is it?" and no conversation | They won't engage | Not your job to fix |
| Few hand raisers on the T1 (e.g. 10,000 buyers, 100 opens, 5 replies) | Wrong currency or wrong present pain | Test different present pains; use the market's own words. Sending them to a web page won't fix it. |
| Many T1 hand raisers, few T2 replies (e.g. 100 to 20) | A T2 question is creating an issue, often shame | Cut to one question: "Can you tell me a little about your situation?" |
| Still no T2 replies with one question | A bad relationship with the list | They don't like the list owner. Look elsewhere. |
| Good T2 replies, few or zero sales (e.g. 200 hand raisers, 50 see the T3, 1 buys) | Something in the T3 isn't right: the offer isn't on the hot button, or a big shark isn't covered | Go back to those people and dig deeper. Listen to "sounds okay, but it's not for me." Fix the T3, send another T1. |
| Buyers say "it's not about the money" | You found the real hot button | Rewrite the T1 around it; send again |
| One angle made 5 sales, the rest 0-1 | That's your home run | Write more about that angle, in different ways |
| Sales are coming in daily | It works | More sends, the autoresponder, new channels; a tapper and a project manager (Stages 7-8) |
With one T2 question, Travis typically sees 50-80% of hand raisers respond.
Script "What they're telling you by not raising their hands is you haven't found the right currency yet."
- WhenKevin wanted to send people straight to his Google Doc sales letter. Travis: "That won't fix your problem."
Script "If you send a T1 out to a big audience and you get no responses, it's probably a new offer you're trying."
Script "Let me tell you all about this land, the zoning, the price, the everything on it... and I get no replies back. What have I learned? I haven't learned anything."
- Whya long email that fails teaches nothing. Pit two short versions against each other instead: "If I send out one acre in [town] and five acres in [town], and I get three times more leads on the five acres, I'm going to buy more five acres."
Script "There's no upside to mailing a smaller segment. Let's mail them all. Let's get this puppy dialed in."
- Whya small mailing either flops ("maybe it was the wrong segment") or works ("I wish we'd mailed the whole d*mn thing"). With 5,000 you might get five replies and miss a gold mine; with 75 replies you learn what they're really buying.
- Howif the partner wants a sample: "What is your concern? I don't see any upside to mailing a smaller segment. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing."
How it works · when to keep going Work backwards from your goal. Want $1,000 a week per partner from one email a week? If one in 10 people who see the T3 buy a $2,000 product at 50% commission, you need 10 people to see the T3 each week from one email (plus a resend to unopens). Or the math the other way: "If I get a hundred people to raise their hand, and sixty qualify and get the T3, and I make six sales on a $5,000 offer, that's 30 grand. At a 40% commission, that's 12 grand off one email. Can you work with that?"
How it works · tapping vs sending to a page
| Situation | Do this |
|---|---|
| Four or five responses on a $5,500 offer | Keep tapping. A tapper at about $20 an hour plus bonuses pays for itself at 50% commission. |
| Hundreds of responses at a time | Test moving the T3 to a Google Doc or an order form |
| So much money it's not worth changing | Put in a tapper and a project manager, and let it run |
Story · The $8,000 rainmaker Emails sent to an $8,000 order page with live chat. No sales at first, and the partner panicked. Travis watched time on page, repeat visits and replies, said give it time, and the $8,000 sales started dropping in.
Story · The 30-day autoresponder "Do you want one that puts money in your bank account, or a crappy one that just has words in it?" A money machine might take 300 emails, since one in 10 is good. Send them out, keep the winners.
Remember · Late in a campaign, engagement drops and sales rise Likes, comments and opens fall, but replies and sales go up, with higher earnings per click. People don't like what they're about to buy publicly, and liking without buying feels inconsistent. Early T1s get lots of "of course" engagement.
Remember · Look at the whole system "Anytime somebody focuses on one number, it's not a useful number." A 10% close on 100 opportunities beats 30% on 30. "How many calls can your salesperson handle at a time? One. How many taps can a tapper have going at a time? Three to five."
Warning
- Don't move to an order form until you have the volume and the offer is dialed in.
- Don't study copy for 50 hours instead of putting something out and letting the market answer.
- No replies? Don't go crying home to your mama. Send another T1 with another angle.
- Don't promise the partner a time period.
(BPW §06, FAP §9, 5P §2, INF §06, TP §6, SHC §05, KIS §2, T3P §4, WOW §6, BQA §04)
5.8Case study · The Social T3 (a sell-out from a Facebook group)
What happened Travis sold out 12 spots of Tapper Training ($57,500 collected) from a 900-member Facebook group in under three weeks. No email list, no sales page, no calls: posts in the group, then DMs with an "ugly notepad file" as the order form.
| Stage | Number | Note |
|---|---|---|
| T1 hand-raiser post | 110 comments, 55 likes | From a 900-member group |
| Reached out (DM or email) | 40 | 4-5 by email; 2 sold from email |
| Got the T3 (notepad file) | 31 | 9 didn't qualify in the chat |
| Said "I'm in" | 13 | 42% of T3s, 32% of everyone who reached out |
| Paid | 12 | 11 paid a $5K deposit; 1 on $2,500 now + $2,500 in 30 days; 1 cancelled |
| Cash in | $57,500 | Plus $6K each after they make their first $50K |
Script "I realize I'm closing like 40%. So all I got to do is get people to reach out. If I can get them to reach out, I'm going to close them."
- Whyit turns every post into one goal: more DMs. When sales stall, add posts, not pressure.
How it works · the four legs (CAP across a campaign)
| Leg | Dates | What he posted | Why |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1. Child | Jul 3 | "How do you ring in over 100K in sales a month without touching your phone?" plus a hand-raiser. Then 10 quiet days, thanking commenters by DM. | "We want to put the 'I want it' in... trigger that dopamine in the beginning of the campaign." |
| 2. Adult | Jul 13-17 | A "Glossary of Tapping" post ("Our tapper unleashed a tapping tornado and closed $84,000 in sales today"), posts explaining T1, T2, T3. Pre-enrollment opened Jul 13. | Once the Child wants it, the Adult needs a reason it makes sense |
| Lick the finger | Jul 17 | "I kind of got a big problem. Hope I can be open about this with you. I'm afraid of disappointing you." Too many had reached out for 12 slots; reserve now. "I just want to work with 12 people. I want to see the whites of your eyes." | Tests where demand stands; names the scarcity objection with the real reason. About 4 went in. |
| 3. Parent | Jul 18 | A Facebook Live that gave the offer and a $10K price up front ("You're going to get a better deal at the end of this"). Two calls to action: "PM me 'I'm in'" or "tell me how close to the hole you are, 1 to 10." | "My main goal was to anchor them to a 10K price right at the very beginning" and get the price shark out where he could "throw some harpoons into it." |
| 4. More Child | Jul 19-22 | Slice-and-dice posts to specific segments, plus testimonials back to back on the weekend. Sold out Sunday, Jul 22. | Sales had stalled at 6-8 with "a big elephant in the room: this price." |
The slices he ran
| Slice | Angle |
|---|---|
| Everyone | A big calendar post: "the escape from hell" |
| Coaches and consultants | People doing lots of strategy sessions by phone |
| Bigger companies | "If you run a bigger company, your profit's likely not sitting in your next ad campaign." (From a real conversation with a multi-million-dollar owner whose founders were off payroll.) |
| Copywriters | Tired of writing for $100 an email; "we make thousands per email." The 2nd-best post for tap-ins. |
| Smaller ticket / recurring (the breakthrough) | "Don't feel comfortable selling big ticket? Then use our color-by-numbers strategy... turning their email or Facebook group into recurring income. Starting cold." Plus a screenshot of someone selling 173 spots at $120 a month to cold prospects. |
Script "I used the term 'tapper' because I wanted to be able to point a finger at something. Best conversion tool in the world, the finger."
- Why"The second you say 'salesperson,' they think 10 and 15%. I want 30 and 40%." A new name has no price box (like "personal trainer" vs "fitness coach").
Story · The quarter pusher "Like the old arcade machine. You drop in quarters and the bar keeps pushing, and pretty soon the quarters are on the edge. Now I feel like I'm dropping silver dollars in." He almost hated closing at 12: "If I would have run this for a few more days, I could have put 24 people in."
Lessons he took
- Next time, start with the smaller-ticket or recurring angle (it even applies to e-com), then work up to big ticket. Many who claimed big-ticket offers weren't really selling them: "There's this identity issue."
- The people who like and comment most aren't the buyers. Buyers sit in the shadows and then reach out. About half the buyers he didn't know; close friends were the hardest to tap in.
- "I wish I could sit in the corner and figure out the right answer. But it takes me interacting with the market."
- Every post needs a little "brain-gasm" about their problem. Then you can post as much as you want.
- Turn what comes up in DM threads into the next post. What people say (a survey answer like "my package is $25K") and what they do are different; the real story comes out in the DMs.
Quick recap · The DM close (full version: Stage 6). Greet them like they walked into your office, ask permission to ask a question or two, pre-frame and send the notepad file, answer questions, use the 100% rule, then the payment link and what happens next.
(ST3 §1-5, §8-9)
5.9Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Nan (FAP) | Should the T1 say "done for you" or hit the core problem? | Run both; let the market tell you. People buy the result, not the deliverable. |
| Nan (FAP) | Their emails get opens but almost no clicks. What do I use? | Find where sales happen. If it's a webinar, turn it on its side. |
| Nan (FAP) | How do I plan the test emails day by day? | You don't. It depends on what they do, like a date. Find the hot button in 3-5 emails, then keep pressing it. |
| Manuel (FAP) | How much research before the first test? | Enough to draw the before and after. Then listen and adjust. |
| Rebecca (FAP) | Do I write in the brand's voice? | T1 yes; it's short. T2 as the tapper ("I'm giving Ann a hand"). T3 either way. |
| Zan (FAP) | (Summarized the plan) | Confirmed. Biggest point: slow down in the T2. The win is the truth, not the sale. |
| Damian (FAP) | T2 data could be one person. Should I test it in a T1? | Go by your gut. With two or three saying it, test the angle; you only lose one email. |
| Cherylyn (5P) | After the test, one offer or many? | The same offer until the wheels fall off. Slice it into angles from what the market says. |
| Kevin (BPW) | Should I send people to my Google Doc sales letter? | Not until you have hundreds of responses. No hand raisers means the wrong currency; a page won't fix it. |
| Nathan (BPW) | People don't answer "What's your situation?" and the conversation dies. | "Increase margins 18%" is too soft. Give them three hair-on-fire situations to pick from. |
| KH (BQA) | Tap by email or move to chat? | Both; it depends on the audience. Older real estate buyers prefer email. |
| Manuel (BQA) | Fitness apps at $20-50/month. How do I run it? | Conversations to dial in the offer, then a G3 order form and traffic. |
| (WOW) | Six people replied "send me details." What now? | Send your T2. Put the onus on you: "Would you help me help you? Could you answer three quick questions?" Then ask what's happening that has them reaching out. |
| (WOW) | How long do you run an angle? | Keep running what sells until sales fall below your daily benchmark. Let the market tell you. |
| (WOW) | Can I use the currency question in a live webinar chat? | Yes, with a moderator. Answer their question first, then: "What's happening in your business that has you considering a change?" |
| (WOW) | Do quiet people buy without engaging? | Yes. Late in a campaign: fewer likes and opens, more buyers and higher earnings per click. |
| (WOW) | Do people raise hands because they assume it's free? | It depends on the relationship. His list knows nothing starts under about $6K. Elsewhere, signal it: "12-month program," or "not free, not even cheap." |
| (WOW) | For 12-15 spots, start specific or broad? | Bullseye first, then slice off another specific piece. |
| (WOW) | An offer T1 ("come to an event") or a no-offer T1 ("do you run webinars?")? | If people are near the hole, make the offer. If unsure, back up and test the wind. Non-offer posts also kill sharks. |
| (WOW) | Should I pre-frame before a T1? | Known offer, warm audience: no, go straight to the T1. New offer or cold list: pre-sell the pain, its cost and what's different first; then the T1 reads like the next step ("I've only got one page and room for 10 restaurants. Would you like a spot?"). |
| (WOW) | Sensitive topics (e.g. ED)? | Don't ask for public comments. "Email me confidentially," or have a group admin take private messages. |
| Joe (T3P) | Should my T2 just ask "Do you have a webinar?" | Decide who you want first. Then pick binary assets: using WebinarJam and paying for traffic. The real pain is they can't afford their ads anymore. |
| (T3P) | Fitness: should the T2 ask how much weight they want to lose? | No, that's hard to answer yes or no. Find trigger points (an event, a divorce). Ask the gym owner how they know who they can help. |
| Chris (T3P) | How do I do the T3 for an evergreen offer? | Give the overview, then narrow. Open a set number of spots for a period; a deadline isn't required. |
| (T3P) | Can I use the same subject line on different emails? | Yes. He changes only the subject line to call out new people, or find-and-replaces the audience. |
| (T3P) | Do link-free emails hurt deliverability? | "We inbox on everything." |
| Lynn (ST3) | My T2 gives 4-5 bullets of detail and ends "Does it make sense to talk?" Why the three questions instead? | What you describe is really a T3 into a call. Use the T2 to ask your three questions first ("help me help you"), then send the T3 to book the call. |
| Erin (ST3) | Where did you make the offer? Does the T3 come before the T2? | T1 is the hand-raiser post. The T2 is the qualifying chat. The T3 is the notepad file. The 3-question template is the email T2, not the social one. |
| Tony (ST3) | What conversion rates should I expect on social vs email? | This run: 40 reached out, 31 got the T3, 13 said yes (42% of T3s, 32% overall). Of the 18 no's, about half said no and half went quiet. |
| Tony (ST3) | Did buyers come from the group or your personal page? | All from the group. He posted once to his personal page and deliberately didn't use his email list, to see what the group alone could do. |
| Chris (KIS) | How do I know if a failed test is my T1 wording or the offer? | Keep the T1 so short it's only the offer. A big audience with no replies usually means a new offer. |
| Nishant (KIS) | How specific should a T1 be? | Slice and dice: many narrow T1s beat one broad one. Go deeper on the segment that wins. |
| Damian (KIS) | Should I split-test subject lines? | Ask what you're testing for. Sales beat opens. Read opens relative to the list's norm. |
| Marcus (KIS) | How do I break follow-up prospects out of ambivalence? | Sell away from where they are. Find present pain and why now. No pain? Let them keep doing what they're doing. |
| Nishant (KIS) | How do you ask questions that lead people to conclusions? | Try to see it through their eyes. Practice with your spouse. Read The Choice; use the X-Ray T2. |
| Nishant (INF) | Text campaign: keep it in text or move to email? | Keep it in text; it forces concise replies. |
| Nishant (INF) | How do I know I've reached the bottom of the hot button? | They tell you a story; you paraphrase it, ask which matters most, and they say "YES." |
| Nishant (INF) | If the plan is the same, can one T3 cover everyone? | Yes. Much of the sale is made in the T2. Never skip the T2; use an implied T2 when you already know they qualify. |
| (TP) | You write big long posts yourself. Isn't that a contradiction? | He already has it dialed in, isn't short on leads, and is testing landing pages for cold ads. "If it doesn't work on the warm market, it's probably not going to work on the cold market either." |
| Participant (OMM) | My short ad-style emails get far more replies. Is that the slicing? | Yes. If the noodle sticks, throw more of that kind and go deeper into it. |
5.10Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Write the short T3 first | Write 10 emails ahead |
| Write the T1 as a short invitation with overt benefit | Write a sales letter full of details |
| Ask for a reply or a text | Put a link in the T1 |
| Mail the whole buyer list | Mail a "safe" small segment |
| Let the replies write the next T1 | Plan the campaign in your head |
| Slice and dice; throw more of what sticks | Repeat "sale on hammers" until the list is burned |
| Start at the bullseye, then slice another piece | Go more general when it doesn't work |
| Slow down in the T2 and dig | Rush the offer into their hands |
| Catch and throw: listen, paraphrase, ask the next thing | Fire off the next question without listening |
| Ask "Can I help you?" | Ask "Do you qualify?" |
| Log currencies and sharks from every reply | Rely on surveys and polls |
| End the T3 with "Just reply back: I'm in" | Send them to a long sales page |
| Find where it drops and fix that one step | Rewrite the whole campaign |
| Judge by replies and sales | Judge by likes and opens |
5.11Worksheet · My campaign
1. The messages
| Piece | My draft |
|---|---|
| Short T3 (first-guess offer) | |
| T1 subject line (would I pay for each open?) | |
| T1: what's happening / overt benefit | |
| T1: the specific result | |
| T1: sharks killed | |
| T1: the question ("Would you like to join us?") | |
| T1 alternate angle #1 (another colored ball) | |
| T1 alternate angle #2 | |
| T2: personal opener | |
| T2: currency question ("What happened that makes this important now?") | |
| T2: outcome question / binary qualifier | |
| T3: line proving I can help their case | |
| T3: the 411 | |
| T3: 4-6 desire bullets | |
| T3: FAQ (sharks, answered bluntly) | |
| T3: IVQ | |
| T3: close ("Just reply back: I'm in") |
2. Currencies and sharks log
| Lead | Heaven Island (want) | Hell Island (fed up with) | Currency, in order | Shark | New angle / T3 line | Bought? |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3. Campaign tracker
| Date | Angle | Sent to | Opens | Hand raisers | T2 answered | Got T3 | Sales | What it tells me | Fix |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Pre-send checklist
5.12Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 6 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| Few or no hand raisers | 5.7 (wrong currency or bad list), 4.2 Present pain |
| Hand raisers don't answer the T2 | 5.5 (cut to one question; shame) |
| T2 answers but no sales | 5.6 T3, 4.6 Sharks |
| You're writing long emails ahead | 5.1 Let the market write it |
| One broad angle stopped working | 5.3 Slice and dice |
| You're tempted to mail a small segment | 5.7 Mail them all |
Close Without Convincing: Tapping and Follow-Up
What this stage settles: turning replies to the T3 into paid customers. You learn the stance (a doctor who sits beside them), how to read where each person is, the exact taps from "I'm in" to the payment link, and how to follow up until they buy, say no, or you fill up.
Why it comes here: A T3 reply is not a sale until they hit the pay button. On Travis's own warm list about 90% of "I'm in" replies paid; on client lists, people said "I'm in" and went silent. Tapping is the putt, not the drive: it only works because Stages 4-5 moved the ball close to the hole. If you find yourself convincing, you're off the green.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 5: T3 replies are coming in, and you have each person's currency from their T2.
- Stage 4.6: the sharks are killed in the offer, not by the tapper.
- Stage 0.4: the chooser stance ("always assume there's a line of people").
Come back to this stage when: people say "I'm in" but don't pay, "sure, send the link" goes nowhere, threads drag on, someone wants a phone call or more info, or tapping feels like white-knuckle driving.
6.0Stage at a glance
The stance
- You're the doctor with a line out the door. Good bedside manner, no shenanigans. You don't convince anyone.
- Sit beside them, not across the table. Help them decide if it's a good fit, for them and for you.
- Mix reality into the positivity. Name your weak points before they find them.
- Make it safe to say no. Sales is getting the truth on the table.
What to send, in order
- "I'm in" → offer the pre-enrollment door (a saving, a locked spot, the head of the line) and ask permission to send the link.
- "Sure, send me the link" → the 100%-sure tap.
- "Yes, I'm 100% in" → the payment tap: thanks, their currency, a plain link, what happens next.
- A question → isolate it ("Are you saying you're in if you can get the answer to that?"), answer it, then treat it like "I'm in."
- Silence → follow-up taps, ripest fruit first, built on their currency.
- Near the end → official enrollment with a deadline, then "Should I just close the file on you?"
Read it left to right: name the kind of reply, send the one tap for it, and every path ends at a plain payment link or, after the ripe-fruit follow-ups, at closing the file.
One-line rules
- "Sales is really about getting the truth on the table. Making it safe to put the truth on the table."
- "Always assume that you have a line of people."
- "We don't send out payment links or invoices unless you're 100% sure you're in."
- "I'm okay with a no, and I'm okay with a yes. What I'm not okay with is no response."
- "If I have something that will help somebody, I follow up with them until they either buy, say no, or I fill up."
- Always swing the pendulum back to their currency.
- Never follow up with "Did you decide to buy?"
- "Be committed, but not serious."
6.1AHAFrom CONVINCING to being the DOCTOR
Why it matters When you tap, you're the doctor. You solve one, two, maybe three problems, and if they won't tell you the real problem, you gently move them aside and take the next person. It keeps the conversation on their problem, not your product. If they see you as the only one who can solve it, there's nothing to convince. And people often show you the sore knee, not the real problem.
Script "We want to have good bedside manner, but we ain't got no time for no shenanigans. We got 50 people outside of our door."
- Whyit frames you as the expert with demand, not a seller chasing a sale. The "50 people" holds even if there's only one person in line.
Script "My stance is I'm a doctor, and I fix big swollen left testicles. Big. Swollen up like a grapefruit. The problem is not every guy wants to come in and say it. He says, 'Hey, my knee is sore.'"
- Whydeliberately crude so it sticks. People tell you what sounds good, not the painful truth.
- Howname the distance: "I'm feeling some distance between us. I can't be of help. What should we do from here?" Then they either open up or you part kindly.
Script "The worst thing in my mind you can end up doing is become product focused and let them lead you to become product focused."
- Why"Doc, just tell me how much your prescriptions are" pulls you into pitching features.
- How"Thank you for coming. I've got a whole line of people out there right now. Why don't you come back if I have some time?"
Script "It's natural for our attention to move to the product. It's natural for the client's attention to move to the product. What we always want to be doing is redirecting it back to the problem."
Script "We want to consider this more of a dance. We do something and there's a response. We do something and there's a response."
- Whystiff, white-knuckled dancing is the most uncomfortable kind. Even mistakes add humanness (Travis once replied in the wrong PM window during a class; apologizing made him more human).
- Howif a T1 gets little response: "Awesome. That wasn't the right angle."
Script · Yellow light syndrome "We're supposed to stop or slow down for yellow lights. But most of the time we want to close our eyes and gun it."
- Howslow down and name it: "I'm feeling some tension," "I feel like I've confused you," or "I'm feeling some pressure here. I don't want there to be any pressure. Where have I gone wrong?" People want to help you, and the real issue comes out.
Script · The repeat ghoster "Help me understand. We keep getting together, we keep reaching out, we keep having these conversations. I love talking to you, but I just don't feel like I'm offering you the right solution. What's your feeling on this?"
Story · The Hawaii call On a strategy call the line went quiet. Travis said, "Maybe we should just drop this. I'm getting the feeling you're not very interested." The man said his daughter had walked in and he'd muted. He was very interested.
How it works · your voice
- Stay in the nurturing-parent voice about 70% of the time, or the adult voice. Never the critical-parent voice. Never make people feel small.
- Take the onus for problems, but keep your boundaries.
- "Nice guy negotiation": "I just keep smiling and asking for what I want." "That's a very generous offer. Here's my situation. What do you think we should do? I'd sure like to work this out with you."
- When unsure: "Maybe I'm being obtuse here. Can you help me out?" People love to help you understand.
Remember · Moving someone aside, nicely "Sounds like you're just getting to know who I am." Give them a video or a PDF. Or: "Keep watching my emails / my Facebook group. When you feel comfortable, reach back out." What usually happens next: they say "No, I'm ready to go," or they finally tell you the real problem.
Warning Don't get bogged down in long private messages. Tapping is the putt, not the drive. Don't let tappers handle objections; the offer should have killed the sharks already. And don't arm-wrestle anyone who says no.
(FUT §01, T3P §2, §7, ST3 §8)
6.2AHAFrom ACROSS the table to BESIDE them (mix reality into the positivity)
Why it matters Travis says this one shift took people he coached from tapping 1 in 10 to 4 or 5 in 10. By the time people reach out, especially after pre-selling, they kind of want it. They're on the fence, looking for someone to be real with them. "When they start getting on the fence and they're getting really ready to make a decision, positivity and enthusiasm is not what gives them the trust and the confidence to move forward." Old sales books say sales is a transfer of enthusiasm; Travis pushes against that.
| Mistake | The fix |
|---|---|
| #1 Wrong stance: sitting across the table, trying to sell them something | Sit beside them and help them decide if it's a good decision, for them and for you |
| #2 Too much positivity and enthusiasm | Mix reality into the positivity. Don't be a Negative Nellie either. |
How it works · how Travis runs a tap or a call
- Find out what they want.
- Find out what's stopping them.
- "Now let me see if I can talk you out of it." Lay out the challenges, including where you're a pain to work with.
- Let them answer. Often they start saving the sale themselves.
- State how you work. Give the choice: in on your terms, or not now.
- Send the payment link only when they say they're 100% sure.
Script "We're sitting across the table from them trying to sell them something, rather than sitting next to them helping them decide if this is going to be a good decision, not only for them, but for you."
- Why"for you" matters. If you sell for yourself, you'll have to work with them. If you sell for a client, they will.
- How"They're sitting next to me, not across from me. Just like if she was my grandma or my son. We're trying to make a good decision together."
Script "Hey, I have a concern. You're already working as a nurse, right? So it's not all sunshine and roses to learn all this. It's going to require about 5 hours a week for you to carve out. Is that realistically going to be possible with everything that you've got going on right now?"
- Why"I have a concern" puts him on her side. The question hands the decision back to her.
- Howlisten first. Ask "Where do you think you need the most help?", reflect her answer back, then add the reality.
- Whenafter she voiced a worry: "I'm not going to know enough to actually help people."
Script "Doing this with support, with other people and a coach to lean on, won't make it easy, but it'll be easier than just doing it all by yourself."
- Whyhonest positivity ("won't make it easy") lands where hype doesn't. Swing back to the positive only after she has answered the reality check.
- Story: she saved it herself. She wants out of healthcare and worries about bringing COVID home to her family: "I can definitely fit this in." (It's not magic; sometimes people say "good point, no, I don't.")
Script "Are you saying you're not good at sales, or you hate sales?" "Oh, I hate sales." "Perfect. I can tell you right now that this line of work will drive you absolutely bat sh*t crazy, and I don't want to do that to you."
- Whythe question separates a skill gap from a dislike. The honest answer protects both sides from a bad fit. Travis calls it getting "Columbo-ish."
Script "What they're looking for is somebody to be real with them and help them decide: in my situation, is this going to be a good fit for me?"
Script "There's this moment where people are like, 'Oh, I can relax and trust this person. He's not just going to blow smoke up my keister.'"
How it works · take the shiny off (show your weak points) Look at where your offer is weak and bring it up yourself, without overdoing it. Open with "Hey, I have a little bit of a concern" or "Here's where I might see a challenge," after starting with the positive. (Greg's name for it: "taking some of the shiny off." It's lighter and earlier than Sandler's negative reverse selling, which Travis saves for after a stated position or a full-frontal objection.)
Script · The POS price gap "If you want to change out your system every two or three years, you can get a much less expensive system. We are the only people that actually manufacture all the computer equipment and the POS and the printers and the interfaces, so you can actually have your system for 5 years, 10 years, without having to change the whole thing out... That's why we're so much more expensive. There's not a right choice. Do you want to change out your system every couple of years, or are you looking more for a long-term solution?"
- Whynames the price gap before they do, ties it to a real benefit, then frames it as a choice.
Script · Analytical buyers "I drive analytical, super analytical people bat sh*t crazy. So if you need to know every single step mapped out to the nth degree, I'm totally not your dude."
- Howbalance it right away: "I'm always looking at risk versus reward, and I'm not going to let you step on your own man parts or lady parts. But if it's just ego, I'm going to push you to get the car off the curb. You can't steer a parked car."
Script · "I need to see the modules" "Dude, that's a great question and a great thing to want to see, but I have a concern. I'm going to drive you bat poop crazy, because I don't have any of that. Here's the way I work."
- What happens: some say "No, I need that." Perfect. Many say "I overanalyze things, and it's really stopped me in my life, so this is probably what I need." Travis checks: "Are you sure? We're probably going to push you. It's not always going to be comfortable." Then: "I can enroll you now, but you tell me where you'd like to go."
Script · Talk them out of it "We spend half of the time talking about why this might not work. I figure out what they want, what's stopping them. Now let me see if I can talk you out of it."
- How"Why don't we just talk about what would stop us from working together?" (A well-known sales expert's reply: "Ooh, that's so smart.")
Script · What you don't do "I'm not your email management guy. If you want somebody to manage your email, that's cool. I'm just not your dude for that." And when you disagree with their direction: "If that's the direction you want to go, I'm not going to be a good fit for you."
Script · When it's not a fit "I help people sell bigger-ticket stuff. If you just want to learn to write better, you can get a $2.99 Kindle book. Are we over? Are we finished?" Or: "Can I be frank with you? I'm a simple person. That sounds like a nightmare to me. Are you open to something simpler?" (when they describe what they want in fuzzy terms, like "a predictable conversion funnel").
Story · The Whiz-Banger 2000 Travis's parody of the across-the-table pitch: super excited, "a price nobody's seen before," all gone tomorrow. It gets you a lot of "let me think about it."
Story · James: truth on the table James's shift with his own coaching clients: tell prospects why it won't work and where their constraints are, including "smart people complicate the sh*t out of everything, and you're smart, and you might complicate this."
Warning
- Don't stack features: "you're going to get this, and this, and this, it's going to be awesome."
- Don't push with "if you're really serious about this, you'll find the money / dedicate the time / let go of your fears."
- Don't swing to the other extreme and be a Debbie Downer.
- "You have to recheck your stance a lot." If you don't think your stuff can really help people, change your stuff or quit selling it.
(ATR §01-04, WOW §5)
6.3Be the prize: state your rules and hold your terms
AHA · From BENDING your terms to STATING them, kindly
Why it matters Part of the stance comes from what Oren Klaff calls being the prize. You make the rules in your life. Other people don't have to follow them, and you don't make them wrong when they don't. It isn't about reputation: people can tell who's in charge. Rules stated calmly, with a choice attached, get the truth on the table.
Script "Always assume that you have a line of people. You ain't got time for no shenanigans."
- Howhelp them decide "in a benevolent, empathetic, kind way, but not overly nice, syrupy way."
Script "I'm just trying to decide if we're going to be like peanut butter and jelly or peanut butter and mustard. There's nothing wrong with mustard or jelly. It's just a matter of whether we go together."
- Whyit keeps you off the arrogance side of the tightrope. You're not the better choice, just a different one.
Script · A rule about dates "Hey, it's perfectly reasonable to change the date. We all get busy, I get it. Over here, we just have a tiny little rule where if we're going to change the date, we let both parties know so we can agree on a new date. What would you like to do?"
Script · A rule about emergencies "If you're the type to have a lot of emergencies, that's okay. But we're not going to be a good fit. So I'm either going to help you manage your business and life so you're not having emergencies all the time, if that's appealing to you, or you can keep your emergencies and we just won't work together. Where do you think we should go from here?"
- Howsame pattern as his schedule: "You're free to PM me anytime. More than likely, I'm only going to answer on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays."
Script · Squeezing someone in, out loud "Hey, I'm always happy to see you in my PMs. I'm kind of a pain in the butt to work with. I have a waiting list that goes out till the beginning of next year for my firm. But I'm always open to jumping on a Zoom and seeing what you're up to."
- Howoffer two honest options (start next year, or squeeze it in, relaxed). People pick: "I'm in no rush" or "this doesn't work for me."
Script · Holding a term (Troy's 12-month question) "Hey, I appreciate that. Not everybody wants to commit to a year-long thing. Totally appreciate it. We're going to have a little bit of a challenge, though, because that's the only way that I work for this. You can come in for 12 months, or we just put this on the back burner until you have 12 months. Where do you think we should go from there?"
- Then swing the pendulum back: "Can you remind me again why you were considering this at all?"
- Why: Troy's prospect had never been in the painting business, so 12 months is the smart setup. Don't bend a term that exists for their own good.
Script · The penicillin analogy "You want one penicillin pill? That's not the way we work over here. The worst thing I could do to you is give you one penicillin pill, because you're still going to have the ear aches. It might even come back worse. You want to try to find a doctor that will just give you one penicillin? That's up to you."
- Whya doctor asks questions first, then prescribes the full dose because that's what works. Your term is about results, not control. (Travis uses analogies like this all the time, usually with pretty good success.)
Script "How can I be the only person that does this in this specific spot?"
- Whyhis "mini monopoly." When nobody else does it, "they kind of got to wait on me."
Story · The bad customer they let in An attendee told prospects they weren't a good fit. They went to his partner and begged their way in: "He has the money, why aren't you letting him in?" They let him in. He was probably the worst customer they've ever had.
Remember · The tightrope Being the prize can spill into indifference or arrogance. Travis leaves room to be wrong and never makes the prospect wrong. "You can't be the prize to everybody, but you know who the hell you're presenting the prize to, and you're totally okay with them not seeing that." And if tapping feels white-knuckle, check whether you're hiding something or sugarcoating.
(ATR §05-06, §08, ST3 §8)
6.4Read the ball: short putt, long putt, out of range
AHA · From treating every reply the SAME to reading WHERE the ball is
Why it matters Every reply sits somewhere on the golf course. Know where the ball is before you respond. You stop wasting effort convincing, and you stop overcomplicating easy buyers. There are "more balls closer to the hole than we might imagine." Near the hole, people ask only two questions: "Will this work for me?" and "Is it the right time?"
| Type | What it looks like | What you do |
|---|---|---|
| Short putt | Knows the price and roughly the offer. Comes with 1-2 questions, usually "Will this work for my situation?" | Give a confident yes. Ask if they're ready or have a question. Then the payment link (after the 100% tap). |
| Long putt | Warm, believes you have the answer, but the timing isn't right yet | Stay in touch. Something will line up and the timing will be right. |
| Out of range | "How do I know your program will work for me?" Info-seekers, price-list askers | Kindly say your timing is off, don't make them wrong, and swing back another time |
Script "Cool, man. Great to see you. Are you ready to rock and roll, or do you have a question for me?"
- Whyshort putts often need no details at all. Pushing the ball back to them only slows a buyer down.
- How"Nope, I'm ready." "Terrific. May I drop you my fancy PayPal link?" Then the 100% rule (6.6). If there's an event or a date they must know, bring that up.
Script "Whether the letter was one page, five pages or 28 pages, they basically asked: let me tell you about my situation. Is there any hope for me?"
- Howa simple, 100% confident yes is all they need: "Yes, this will 100% work for you. This will be a cakewalk for me." Only say it when you believe it; by this point it usually is true.
Script · Out of range "It sounds like we're just getting to know each other, and I apologize that my timing's off. I've got people I'm rolling in right now that already know they want to jump in with me. It's perfectly okay if you're not ready yet, but let's swing around next time."
- Whyyou don't try to convince anybody on a T3. It sometimes acts like takeaway selling ("No, I need to do this now"), but the point is being the doctor, not the tactic.
Script · The info-seeker "I love your curious nature, but right now I've got people that are in pain."
- Howoffer a free video so they get to know you, and say your timing seems off for them.
How it works · reading replies
- Short replies are often good. "Details." may be a busy mover-and-shaker. The people you want usually have more money than time. ("Hi Travis, I'm interested. Thanks." paid so fast she wrote "done" before he asked for her email.)
- Long story replies ("I've been through this course and that course...") usually mean they'll stay where they are. Ask: "Sounds like you've been pretty gung-ho on that. Why do you think this is going to work if all those other things haven't?" Or: "Wow, you've tried a lot of things. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to help you either." Then let them sell you.
- "Just looking for the info" is information seeking, not buying.
- Is it the right time? Sometimes it isn't, and that's okay. Pre-selling loads the green with people waiting; then something happens in their life, and it becomes the right time. Deadlines work partly because "people hate making decisions"; the deadline gives them a reason to make it the right time.
How it works · the tap in a conversation (call or chat)
- Find out what they want, whether you can help, why they haven't solved it, and your plan (what's different).
- Ask if they want to do something about it now.
- Get the money out of the way: "You said you want to knock in $3K, $6K, $10K sales just using email and get off the phone. Do you feel $6,000 is an appropriate investment to make that happen?" Once they say yes, he closes 80-90%, because the biggest objection is gone. If they hear "Are you buying now?": "I appreciate that. I'm not asking you to buy right now. I'm asking if you feel it's an appropriate size for the problem. If not, that's totally cool."
- "What else would you need to know in order to make a commitment to moving forward?" About 25% say "How do I get started?" Take the money first; tell them the rest after.
- Handle what's left, then the tap: "Based on what you told me about your list and your offer, and I can already see the uniqueness, this is going to be a cakewalk for me. Why don't we just jump in and do this?"
Your instinct won't let you ask the price question if you haven't built up the problem first. That's a signal.
Script · The love tap (the six-minute strategy session) "Your advantage as an engineer is you'll see all the processes and systems. The disadvantage is you have a full-time job. Do you think you can dedicate five hours a week? ... I think it's going to be a perfect fit for you. I can go ahead and get you enrolled now, but you tell me where you'd like to go from here."
- Howname their advantage, name the one challenge, check they can meet it, then hand them the choice.
- Whywith enough pre-selling (and the price known before the call), the call is one or two questions: "Will this work for my niche?" then "I'm in." Far better than 60-minute calls and 60 days of chasing.
Remember · Where you stand All along you walk beside them, slightly ahead, shining a light called insight. Near the hole they can't see past your light, so this is the one time you step behind them and give a gentle tap. "What's the worst thing you can do when a ball is two inches from the hole? Not tap it in." And: "The worst thing you can do is hit it too hard."
Warning Don't try to convince out-of-range people (you'll be tempted). Don't over-explain to a short putt. Don't judge people, but notice the info-seekers.
(T3P §3, WOW §5, INF §06, ST3 §6, FUT §04)
6.5Build a door: pre-enrollment
AHA · From "Great, here's the link" to opening a DOOR as a favor
Why it matters Saying "Don't send me any money now, just let me know if you're in" and then "Give me your money" feels off. A pre-enrollment phase turns the payment link into a favor: a saving, a locked spot, the head of the line. "Nobody wants to lose something." Paid rates are much higher.
How it works · the three phases of every opening
- Pre-enrollment: "I'm in" replies get the door as a favor. The goal is to sell out here.
- Official enrollment: with a deadline, for T3 replies who haven't enrolled (6.7).
- Ending enrollment (or "reserve" for physical products).
How to price the door: if you want $5K, put $6K in your T3. The $1,000 is the pre-enrollment saving. A discount isn't required; limited spots can be the door.
Script "Awesome. I'm so excited to have you. Right now we're pre-enrolling. If you'd like to go ahead and enroll in the pre-enrollment phase, I can save you $1,000. Would you like me to send you the link?"
- Howreply to their "I'm in" with this, then wait for their "Yes."
- Whenthe first reply to every "I'm in."
Script · Limited spots, no discount "Hey, we're in pre-enrollment right now. As you know, we've only got a few spots open. Would you like to go ahead and lock in your spot before we open up officially? If so, let me know, I'll send you the payment link."
- Howif you know how many are sold, tell them. Variant: "If you want to make sure nobody gets your spot..."
Script · Head of the line "We aren't officially enrolling, shipping, registering yet, but if you're ready, I can sneak you into the head of the line." ("Who doesn't like to be at the head of the line?")
Script · Selling for a big name "I'm so excited for you. [I'm going to let Joe know you're joining.] May I go ahead and send you the link to take care of the investment so we can 100% lock in your spot?"
- Whytelling the big name they're joining solidifies the decision. (An attendee suggested CC'ing the guru; Travis hasn't done it but agreed it'd be even more powerful.)
Script · The DM version "Before I give you the details, would you kindly let me know if you're in, out or got a question? We're pre-enrolling now."
- Whenwhen replies are slow, or the vibe tells you they're doing three things at once.
Remember Get permission at every step. Never reply to "I'm in" with "Great, here's the link." Letting "I'm in" replies stack up a little lets you say "I've got six spots and 30 people have already reached out"; just don't leave them waiting long.
(FUT §03, ST3 §6, T3P §7)
6.6The 100%-sure tap and the payment tap
AHA · From "they asked for the link" to "are they 100% IN?"
Why it matters "Sure, send me the link" is not "I'm in." It usually means "send it and I'll think about it," or it's a way to get you off the phone or the chat. "They say 'send me the link,' and I'll sit on it for a year." Asking if they're 100% sure swings the pendulum back and puts the truth on the table. After a yes to it, 80-90% pay. Until you can tell who's shucking and jiving you, use it on everyone.
Script · The 100%-sure tap "Awesome. Super excited to help you [currency]. I have a rule that we don't send out payment links or invoices unless you're 100% sure you're in. Are you saying you're 100% sure you're in?"
- Howthe rule can be yours ("I have a rule"), the team's ("we have a rule") or the client's when a tapper writes ("Joe has a rule"). Listen for "sure" in front of "send me the link": "Sure" is one of the words people use when they're BSing you.
- Whenafter "Yeah, go ahead and send me the link," or any soft yes.
Script · The playful version "Before I send this over to you, I have a little rule over here... I want to make sure that I didn't strongarm you or you don't feel like I've used some master NLP kung fu on you. Are you 100% sure you're in?"
- Whythe joke takes the pressure off and makes it safe to back out.
Three things usually happen
| They... | You say |
|---|---|
| Never reply (the smaller group) | Move them down the follow-up order (6.7) |
| "Yeah, I'm in, send it over" | Send the payment tap |
| Put the truth on the table ("Let me check my schedule," "I need another credit card," "I need to move money around") | "Okay, cool. When you've got that money together, let me know. Then I'll send you the link." |
Script · The payment tap "Thank you. I'm thrilled to have you. [Their currency.] Please take care of the payment by using this fancy link: [link]. You'll get full access to the course as well as the bonuses so you can get started as soon as possible."
- Howthank them, personalize to their currency, link, then what happens next ("we'll get you added to our private Facebook mastermind group"). For physical products: "I'm going to have Joe go down to the shipping department and lovingly package your widget, and we'll ship it off by tomorrow morning."
- Whenonly after they've said yes to receiving the link.
Script · The pendulum swing at the link "Let's put that 50K in your bank as soon as possible."
- Whyswings them back to the benefit they want, right before the link. Skip it when they've already said they'll pay today.
Script · What happens next "Perfect, thank you. I'll have Annette get you pre-training access first thing tomorrow. What's the best email for you?"
- Howa PayPal.me link. If they prefer a card, send an invoice: "What's the best email? What company name do you want it made out to?" No landing page.
Script · For invoices and deposits "Great. I'm going to send you the invoice after I get done with lunch. When will you pay it?"
- Why"I don't need the money. What I'm trying to do is figure out how they pay their bills."
Story · The last spot The payment-plan buyer had to borrow from his mom's PayPal and asked when he had to pay. Travis: "I don't want to rush you, but if this comes in after the 12th payment, then I'll just refund you." The buyer went to get it, messaged "Is that spot still open?", and the payment came in about an hour later. "It's all yours."
Story · The copywriter after the sell-out Travis was "sold out" but had unpaid spots, so whoever paid first could have one. A copywriter wrote in about the copywriting slice post, with "PS: I can pay in full by the end of the day." One question about licensing, then "I'm in, ping it over." Done over Sunday morning coffee on the back patio.
How it works · the checkout
- Use the most bare-bones checkout possible: the logo, the program name, how to pay. No testimonials. "They're in the hole. We don't want to tap them back out." "Don't unsell it."
- Get the link out fast. "The only time I get a little antsy, I'm doing a little jig, is 'I'm in.'" Batch other replies once or twice a day, but don't leave "I'm in" waiting.
Script · When you don't offer payment plans "That's a perfectly legitimate request. Right now we're just rolling in folks that can write us a check for the entire investment. I apologize if that doesn't fit you and we've caught you when the timing is wrong. What would you like to do?"
- What happens: some say "I'll go figure it out." Some say "Catch you later, gator." Both are fine. (When you do want payment plans, see Stage 7.)
Warning Don't send the link in the same breath as "I'm in." Don't link to a long sales page, or even an order form with testimonials.
(FUT §04, T3P §7, §9, ST3 §6, §8, ATR §05)
6.7Follow-up taps: ripest fruit first
AHA · From "they're not interested" to "they're BUSY, and I'm not done until they say no."
Why it matters "People hate making decisions, and the bigger the decision, the more they hate it. And they also hate to miss out." Movers and shakers aren't saying no; they get busy, and many thank you for the reminder. "Them not responding back is not a no. It's not making a decision." An empty seat is a person you didn't help: "Most people would fall down on their private parts if they knew how much stuff their audiences were buying that wasn't theirs."
How it works · the ripe-fruit order (work back until your spots fill)
- Said "I'm in" but haven't paid.
- Got a T3 but haven't replied.
- Asked a question after the T3 and went quiet.
- If it makes sense: T2s who never answered the questions. Take the onus: "Boy, I sure asked you a lot of questions. If you just answer this one question..."
Stop when your pre-set number of spots is full.
How it works · how long to wait after a T3
| Situation | Wait |
|---|---|
| No live event or date | At least 12 to 24 hours |
| Live event | Longer; they need to check their schedule and flights |
| Very big ticket | Give room: "Are you looking to see if you need to move some money around?" |
| Small, like $500 | Short: "Are you in or are you out?" |
"Some of it's by feel." Weigh it by the size of the offer.
Script · Official enrollment (for T3 replies who didn't take pre-enrollment) "Hey Joey, I'm opening up for official enrollment Sunday night. If you'd like to go ahead and enroll so that we can [currency], I can save you that $1,000, or it's still going to be a great value after Sunday night. What would you like to do?"
- Why"Nothing sells like a time deadline." Worth it most as prices climb to $15K, $20K, $25K.
Script · The day before it closes ("a money maker") "Just want to let you know we're closing enrollment for [program] at noon tomorrow. We've got one VIP day where Chad and you could [currency] in February. Would you like it, or should we just close the file on you for this? All you need do for now is let me know you're in before tomorrow, then we'll handle the rest of the details."
The follow-up tap library
| Situation | Tap |
|---|---|
| Silent after T3 | "Hey, we haven't heard back from you. I know you're super busy. Have you decided to put [currency] on the back burner? No worries if that's the case." |
| Silent, and you know their currency | "Hey Chris, I know how hectic life gets. We're shipping out the Roll Back the Years anti-wrinkle packages now. Did you still want to start smoothing out your lip lines before your high school reunion?" Or: "Tom, I know you're packing for your trip to Mexico. Have you decided to put getting leads for your salespeople on the back burner?" |
| Silent, maybe confused | "Oh, sorry, apologies. Was there a question you had I didn't cover about [blank]?" (Their answers become gold for your T3.) |
| Silent after "I'm in" | "We haven't heard back from you. I know you're super busy. I was so excited when I told Chad you were joining us. Have you decided to..." |
| "I'm in," no payment, no reply (a separate email, subject "Uh oh, please open") | "I was so excited to see you join us for [program]. Thank you again. I haven't heard back from you though, and I don't know if alligators ate my last note to you or you got busy. Please respond back and let me know if I should send out a search party." (Works great on unpaid invoices too.) |
| Near the end (a separate email, subject "Not sure what to do with you") | "John, haven't heard anything from you. Should I just close the file on you?" |
| Anytime the thread stalls | Subject and body: "Status" plus your name. Or "Are we over?" |
| Months after they said they're out | "Hey Sue Ann, enjoyed talking with you three or four months back. I was just looking at this last conversation. I'm wondering if I should close the file on you forever. I don't want to be a pest." (New when taught; no results reported yet.) |
| "I need more info" | "Please forgive me, I'm not following. I'd love to learn more. This is all we've got. If you're saying it's not enough for you to make a commitment, I totally understand. I'll take that to mean you're out at this time. If I'm not understanding correctly, please let me know." |
| Too expensive, still wants help | A down-sell: "I make most of my money doing [X], and I teach this because I love it... If you want to roll in now, I've got the online version you can get started with right away. Then you come out to my house anytime in the next year. It's a bit sticky out here in July, but we've got AC and a pool." |
Script · Close the file "Should I just close the file on you?"
- Whyit leads with no, so it's safe to answer, and people don't want things to be over. A Mojo man said this one line paid for all his fees. If they say yes, close it; don't arm-wrestle.
- When"until the last dog is hung": after a couple of follow-ups, with one or two spots left. Usually Travis's last tap.
Story · The special-needs daughter (why the T2 currency matters) A prospect said she wanted to make enough to stay home with her special-needs daughter. The follow-up, gently: "Hey, I know how busy you are. Hadn't heard back from you. Have you just decided to continue working outside the home a little bit longer?" She says she has to figure out the dates or the money. "Boy, I'd sure love to help you spend that time with your daughter. I don't want money to stand in the way. Is that the only thing preventing you from coming out?" "Would a payment program help you? Tell me what would work for you, and as long as it's reasonable, we'll make it happen." Never: "Did you decide to put your daughter on the back burner?"
How it works · after you sell out
- "Sold out. If you'd like to be put on the alert list for the next one, I'll notify you first when we open." Then the next promo starts with spots already sold.
- "Would it make sense for me to do something special for you?" For example, the recording of the last training.
- Offer to reserve a spot in the next class with a small deposit, or open a whole new class for the pent-up demand. Stay in integrity.
Warning
- Never follow up with "Did you decide to buy?" That's "picking up the golf ball." Follow up on their currency, with no judgment added.
- On Messenger, don't send walls of text. Split a tap into two or three short messages, the way you'd talk in person.
- Don't get squeamish about following up. You don't have to be as assertive as Travis, but keep going.
(FUT §05-06, §12, T3P §5, §7, ATR §07)
6.8Questions, objections and phone calls
AHA · From ANSWERING everything to ISOLATING the one real question
Why it matters Most people who want a call just don't feel safe deciding alone. They want one "absolutely." Isolate the real question, answer it, and keep the phone for figuring out new offers, not for doing marketing's job. If you fill every spot, you're not leaving money on the table.
How it works · the standard template (when you don't know what to say)
- "I understand," or "[Name], you've got a point." ("Who doesn't like to hear that they're right?")
- "At the same time" / "On the other hand" + your position.
- "What would you like to do?" or "How would you like to proceed?" Let them choose where the ball goes next.
Travis calls it nice-guy negotiating: keep smiling and stating your boundaries, like the concrete barrier on the freeway that doesn't care how close you get.
Script "I appreciate what you're saying. Here's my position. What would you like to do?"
- Howadd "I don't want to make you mad" if you sense you might. For people who won't answer qualifying questions and just want the info: "I don't want to make you mad, but I also don't want to spin your wheels."
Script "Here's what I'm understanding about your situation. Here's my situation. What would you like to do?"
- Whyyou don't make them wrong; you hand the decision back. Travis uses it for every boundary: rambling prospects, people who want a call, missed pickups.
- Howhis gross-on-purpose example is a doctor who fixes one very specific problem, with a line of 50 patients out the door. If a patient wants to tell their life story, he points to the line and offers another time.
Script · Isolating a question "That's a perfectly legitimate question. With that aside, are you saying you're in if you can get the answer to that question?"
- Whenone specific question you can't answer yourself (e.g. "Can [client] help me market to people in New Zealand?"), before you take it to the client or get on the phone.
Script · A long back-and-forth "That's a perfectly legitimate question. Right now I'm just rolling in people that know they want in, or already feel comfortable that I can help them. If that's not you, that's totally cool. If I have any spots left, I'll roll back around to your questions."
- Whykeeps you from "a mile-long thread."
Script · Tech and detail questions "That's a perfectly legitimate concern. But what I really feel you saying is you're not comfortable with me yet."
- Howanswer straight if needed ("our backlinks come from perfectly legit places"), then: "Right now I'm just rolling in folks that know I can help them. If you're not there yet, that's totally cool. What would you like to do?"
- Why"They really don't give two sh*ts most of the time how we solve the problem. If they do, they're usually not the right type of client." (Travis takes the drug his doctor prescribes; his wife Googles it. Both are fine, but you're rolling in people who trust the diagnosis.)
Script · A phone call request "Your request to get on the phone is perfectly reasonable. At this point, we're filling the 10 spots with people ready to reserve their funnel without a phone call. If there are any openings left, we'll swing back around for any phone calls."
- Howrestate what's included and their currency, then: "I understand if this doesn't suit your needs... If you'd kindly let us know what you decide so we can get the ball rolling or close the file for you." (Over 100 people showed interest for those 10 openings.)
Script · "I've got to run this by my wife" "That's perfectly cool. I've got a line of people outside. I'm hoping you get a spot."
- Depending on how it's going, Kevin Nations' line: "If your wife isn't trusting you to do this, maybe we're dodging a bullet here."
Script · Naming a feeling "I don't want you to be mad at me. I hope I'm not offending you. But right now we're just rolling in people without a phone call. What would you like to do?"
Script · Clarity on what you do "I would recommend going and getting Andre Chaperon's course... I help people turn their email list into big ticket sales. That's what I do. Are we over?"
- Whyit's clarity, not convincing. Often they reply, "Wait, maybe I do want big ticket sales." And when someone asks why your course beats another: "I don't know that it is."
How it works · when to use the phone
| Use the phone | Don't use the phone |
|---|---|
| Testing a new offer: "You can figure out your offer in three months, or in three days" | As a marketing device: that's "using a putter way back at the tee" |
| Interviewing your ideal person for pain points | Arm-wrestling the undecided for an hour |
| One isolated question, or they need to hear you're real | Convincing people when your spots are already filling |
Script "Thanks for getting on the phone with me. I really just have one question... Let me tell you about my situation... Do you think this will work for me?"
- Whythis is how most "six-minute strategy sessions" go. "All they're looking for is a 100% positive, concrete absolutely." If you're not sure it'll work for them, ask more questions.
Remember · Pre-sell before the call Most funnels do nothing between "booked a demo" and the demo. One company found prospects who'd read 7-8 blog articles closed far more easily, so they bundled those articles into a PDF to read before the call.
(FUT §07, COA §06E, T3P §7, ST3 §8, WOW §5)
6.9The inbox system: VIP Gmail, tags, canned responses
Why it matters Replying from the client's normal inbox creates drama when customer service mail comes in too. A separate VIP address makes the prospect feel special, and tags turn the inbox into folders you can work by stage. Setup takes a few minutes.
How it works · setup
- A new Gmail with a VIP name: e.g. joevip@gmail.com, joersvp, joeleverysupervip. The from line says the VIP name too. Put the guru's picture in the profile.
- Turn on canned responses in Gmail and save your T1, T2, T3 and follow-up taps, so tappers tweak instead of copy-pasting.
- Respond and tag every reply as it comes in.
- Plain Gmail works: "Only one person in about a year has asked why." "If you're hitting the hot button and the dopamine's squirting everywhere, they don't care if it's Gmail."
The tags
| Tag | When |
|---|---|
| T2 | You sent them the T2 |
| T3 | You sent them the T3 |
| I'm in | They said "I'm in" |
| Paid | They paid |
| T2 follow-up | No reply to the T2 |
| T3 follow-up 1, 2... | Follow-ups after T3 silence |
| I'm-in follow-up | Said "I'm in," hasn't paid |
Click a folder to see who's in it. Prospects move through the stages like gates.
Script · The tapper's first line from the guru's inbox "Hey, this is Travis. Joe's super busy today, I'm giving him a hand. I know you're hoping to see Joe. Hope he won't mind it being me."
- Whyhonest about who's writing, without breaking the personal feel. "Most people are like, 'No, that's totally cool.'"
How it works · time Once the T2, the T3 and the canned responses work, "unless you're doing a huge volume, probably an hour a day, you could probably get through most of your stuff," plus a half hour in the evening to catch "I'm in" replies. Messenger has no great system: put people on a waitlist and get their email.
Quick recap · Tappers (full version: Stage 8). The skill you need from a tapper, once the T2, T3 and canned responses are right: "to be able to read between the lines a little bit: what are they trying to get you to hear?" Good tappers are often copywriters, or ex-salespeople who aren't selling now.
(FUT §08, T3P §9, INF §06)
6.10Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Attendee (FUT) | Do you ask for the sale after every email, or leave some open-ended? | Very rarely open-ended. "If there's ripe fruit, I want to pick it." |
| Attendee (FUT) | How soon after a T3 do I follow up? | By feel and by size: at least 12-24 hours with no live event; longer for live events or big tickets; fast for a $500 offer. See 6.7. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Is pre-enrollment about selling out early? | Ideally yes. Then official enrollment with a deadline, then follow up from the ripest fruit. See 6.5 and 6.7. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Do tappers overcome objections? | No. Kill the sharks in the offer (Stage 4, the five TIMER objections) before anyone reaches the tapper. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Do you use sales teams to close people on the fence? | No. Isolate the one question. He won't spend an hour convincing; if you fill every spot, you left nothing on the table. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Would you get on a call for a brand-new offer? | Absolutely. Belly to belly or a one-on-one chat is the fastest way to find the objections. See 6.8. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Do you play positioning games in follow-ups? | No. Short and personal, built on their currency. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Should I play down my technical skill? | Don't be someone you're not. "I'm a technical person; I make technical stuff easy." Keep it simple. |
| Attendee (FUT) | How do I manage Messenger conversations? | No great system. Put them on a waitlist, get their email, and use Gmail tags. See 6.9. |
| Attendee (FUT) | What about the waitlist? When do you reopen? | An alert list, a deposit for the next class, something special now, or open a new class. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Do the out-of-range people ever buy? | Try not to judge. Buyers usually reach out and do it. Watch for info-seekers and long-story repliers. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Someone keeps reaching out, then ghosts. How do I handle it? | Name it nicely: "Help me understand... what's your feeling on this?" |
| Attendee (T3P) | Is there a process for 10 qualified people and 3 spots? | Yes, waiting lists (the alert list above). |
| Welton (T3P) | A prospect for SEO or ads insists on the tech details. | Most people don't want the tech. Ask about the outcome and what happened. If they still insist: "I feel you're not comfortable with me yet." |
| Chris (T3P) | How do I do the T3 for an evergreen offer? | Give the overview, then narrow. Open a set number of spots for a period; a deadline isn't required. (Special editions, 7.5.) |
| Attendee (T3P) | How much tapper time does this take? Do I reply right away? | About an hour a day. Batching is fine; just don't make an "I'm in" wait. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Who makes a good tapper? | Copywriters, or ex-salespeople who aren't selling now. (More in Stage 8.) |
| Greg (ATR) | Does mixing in reality fit the Sandler pendulum swing? | Partly. Negative reverse selling is for after they state a position or a full objection. Mixing in reality is lighter and earlier: use it when the conversation needs it. |
| James (ATR) | A prospect needs something but resists because it's not their idea yet. | A little different. If you disagree with their direction, say so without making them wrong: "If that's the direction you want to go, I'm not going to be a good fit." Challenging what they say they need is how they know you're real. |
| Attendee (ATR) | Where does being the prize spill into indifference or arrogance? | That's the tightrope. Leave room to be wrong, and don't make them wrong. Peanut butter and jelly or peanut butter and mustard: it's only about whether you go together. |
| Attendee (ATR, shared) | T2s also qualify people out. | One prospect begged his way back in and became the worst customer. Travis: tapping gets easier when you don't have to have new people, and saying yes to the wrong person can set you back further. |
| Troy (ATR) | My prospect won't commit to 12 months but says he has the time. | Appreciate it, restate that 12 months is the only way you work, offer now or back burner, and ask why he was considering it at all. Hold the term. See 6.3. |
| Troy (ATR) | Is it okay to use an analogy like that in the conversation? | Yes. Travis uses analogies and metaphors all the time, usually with good success. |
| Tony (ST3) | What conversion should I expect on social? | His run: 40 reached out, 31 got the T3, 13 said yes (42% of T3s, 32% overall). Of the 18 no's, about half said no and half went quiet. Few follow-ups were needed because it sold out. |
| Tony (ST3) | How many buyers already knew you? | 2 repeat customers (the first to reach out), a few long-time Facebook friends, and over half he didn't know. Close friends are the hardest to tap in. |
| Attendee (WOW) | How do you ask the price question on a call? | "Do you feel $6,000 is an appropriate investment to [their goal]?" Then: "What else would you need to know in order to make a commitment?" |
| Attendee (WOW) | Do quiet people buy without engaging? | Yes. Late in a campaign: fewer likes and opens, but more buyers and higher earnings per click. Keep tapping. |
6.11Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Take the doctor stance: solve a few problems, have a line outside | Convince, arm-wrestle or argue why you're better |
| Stand beside them and mix in reality | Stay 100% positive and shiny |
| Show your weak points honestly | Turn into a Debbie Downer |
| Make your rules and hold terms that exist for their good | Hand out one penicillin pill |
| Put a higher price in the T3 and open pre-enrollment as a favor | Reply "Here's the link" to "I'm in" |
| Ask "Are you 100% sure?" before any payment link | Send a link to a soft "Sure, send it" |
| Send a plain payment link and say what happens next | Send them to a long sales page or testimonials |
| Ask "When will you pay it?" | Chase payment with no agreed date |
| Answer short putts fast: ready, or got a question? | Over-explain to someone who's ready |
| Kindly tell out-of-range people your timing is off | Try to convince them |
| Follow up on what they told you (their currency) | Ask "Did you decide to buy?" |
| Follow up from the ripest fruit backwards | Get squeamish about following up |
| Name tension nicely: "I'm feeling some pressure here" | Gun through yellow lights |
| Isolate the one question, then treat it like an "I'm in" | Spend an hour on someone who's on the fence |
| Use the phone to test new offers and answer one isolated question | Use the phone as your marketing |
| Keep Messenger taps short, two or three messages | Send walls of text |
| Give evergreen offers a real edition and capacity | Write "special edition" with no reason behind it |
| Resend your best email on Saturday | Assume they saw it the first time |
| Lead with no when it's time: close the file | Leave files open forever |
Remember
Make it safe to say no. Sales is getting the truth on the table, then collaborating on it.
Always swing the pendulum back to their currency.
Follow up until they buy, say no, or you fill up. If you fill every spot, you didn't leave money on the table.
Be committed, but not serious.
6.12Worksheet · My tapping kit
1. The offer and the door (fill before the T1 goes out)
| Item | My answer |
|---|---|
| Offer name | |
| The special edition (who or what it's for) | |
| Capacity (number of spots) | |
| Target price | |
| Price in the T3 (the door) | |
| Pre-enrollment favor (saving, head of line, bonus) | |
| Official enrollment date and deadline | |
| Closing date |
2. My tap wording
| Tap | My wording |
|---|---|
| Reply to "I'm in" (pre-enrollment + permission) | |
| 100%-sure tap | |
| Payment tap + what happens next | |
| Short-putt reply (ready, or a question?) | |
| Out-of-range reply (timing's off, kindly) | |
| Official enrollment tap | |
| Back-burner follow-up | |
| Search-party email (subject + body) | |
| Close-the-file tap | |
| Phone-call request reply | |
| Down-sell |
3. My rules and terms (being the prize)
| Rule or term | Why it's for their good | How I'll say it without making them wrong | The choice I'll offer |
|---|---|---|---|
| Payment link only at 100% sure | "I have a rule..." | ||
4. Taking the shiny off
| Weak point they'll notice | The real reason behind it | How I'll say it ("I have a concern...") |
|---|---|---|
5. Ripe-fruit tracker (work top to bottom; stop when spots are full)
| Ripeness | Name | Their currency (their words) | Last tap + date | Next tap | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 · Said "I'm in", not paid | |||||
| 2 · Got the T3, no reply | |||||
| 3 · Asked a question, went quiet | |||||
| 4 · T2 never answered (if it makes sense) |
6. Before I hit send on any tap
6.13Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 7 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| You're arguing, convincing or explaining too much | 6.1 Doctor |
| Every message is sunny and they still don't trust it | 6.2 Mix in reality, take the shiny off |
| You bent your terms to get a yes | 6.3 Be the prize, hold terms |
| You're over-explaining to people who are ready | 6.4 Read the ball |
| "I'm in" replies don't turn into payments | 6.5 Door and 6.6 100%-sure tap |
| Lots of T3 replies, few sales, and you stopped following up | 6.7 Ripe fruit and close the file |
| One question keeps stalling the sale | 6.8 Isolate the question |
| Replies sit unanswered or get lost | 6.9 Inbox system |
| The same objection shows up in every conversation | Stage 4 (kill the shark in the offer) |
| Nobody replies to the T3 at all | Stage 5 (the drops) and Stage 3 (the offer and buyers) |
Collect More From the Same Buyers
What this stage settles: how one working test becomes an income stream. You learn to sell the next thing to people who just bought, to widen the yes with payment plans, to package and re-edition what already sells, to keep the same offer and add channels, and to multiply one offer into many. The partner already has the buyers; you collect more from them.
Why it comes here: you can't sell a second helping to someone who never had the first. Stage 7 needs a proven offer (Stage 4), a campaign that works (Stage 5) and buyers who paid (Stage 6). It comes before Stage 8 because you scale what earns, not what you hope will earn: Stage 8 hands to a team the streams you build here. "The most important number in business is not your front-end conversion. It's your conversion from the first date to going steady."
Prerequisites:
- Stage 6: buyers who paid, and a campaign whose T1, T2 and T3 you can rerun.
- Stage 3.8: the partner has seen the test work and asked "What's next?"
- Stage 0.2: the customers are the assets; the money is the byproduct.
Come back to this stage when: a partner asks "What else can you do?", sales flatten on an offer the list has seen many times, you only ever sell new people once, someone pushes back on payment plans, or you've run out of angles.
7.0Stage at a glance
Six ways to collect more, roughly in the order Travis reaches for them
- The second hole. Thank the people who just bought and offer the next thing, minutes after they buy (7.1-7.2).
- Widen the yes hole. Present a payment plan first; after the "I'm in," offer the pay-in-full discount (7.3).
- Sell financing and packages, not subscriptions. A year or a bundle on payments, instead of a cancel-anytime membership (7.4).
- Make a special edition. The same offer, with a real reason and a real capacity limit (7.5).
- The going-steady T1. One-to-one, after a result you got together (7.6).
- Change channels before offers, then multiply the offer. The same offer to email, mail, groups; then slice it by Who, What, When, Where, Why and How (7.7-7.8).
One-line rules
- "You can't get closer to the hole than somebody who has already been through the hole one time."
- "Recency will f*cking make you rich."
- "The biggest secret to upsells is to sell them the same damn thing they just got."
- Customers are the assets. Money is the byproduct.
- "How do you sell continuity? You don't. What works way better is you sell financing."
- "I like to change channels before I like to change offers."
- "Multiplying your offer is far easier, faster, and less expensive than [multiplying] your traffic."
- You don't write a T1, you live into it.
7.1AHAFrom chasing NEW buyers to the SECOND HOLE
Why it matters In mini-golf, the ball drops in and rolls down a pipe right next to the next hole. Your newest buyers are your closest balls. Most partners want to sell new people a new thing; the money is usually in selling buyers what they just bought. Businesses that only sell new people once "grind and grind and grind."
How it works People already in motion take the next step with less energy from you. Closing rates and open rates are highest right after a purchase, then fall every day after. So the next offer goes out almost immediately after the first sale, and you plug into the partner's flow of new buyers rather than warming up a dead list.
Script "You can't get closer to the hole than somebody who has already been through the hole one time."
- Whenif you're starting out with T3 and have any customer list, start there. Make the next offer almost immediately after the first purchase.
Script "Why? Because recency will f*cking make you rich. Your best time to close these people is minutes after they buy. After that, every day that goes by, your closing ratio will get lower and lower."
- Whythe reason to automate and trigger the next offer, not batch-mail it weeks later.
- Whendeciding how fast the thank-you letter or email goes out.
Script "If they put in 10 new customers last month, I can usually get two, three or four of them to upgrade."
- Whyit's why Travis loves getting into a client's customer flow. New customers are already moving.
Script "Where's your highest open rates at? The welcome email."
- Whyproof that moving people pay attention. Opens slide through the first week (90, 80, 70, 60...).
Script "There's only two ways that you can make money. Either get assets flowing… you take a dead pool of assets and you get them flowing. Or you tap into the flow."
- Whenframe the whole model before any tactics. Tapping existing flow beats generating your own energy.
Story · The moving parade Trigger points work in a crowd (a list, a group). They work even better on a parade: a new group member, a new subscriber, a new friend, a new customer. Even three to five new people a week can mean real business. With a new member of a winery group: "Hey, where's your winery at?" ... "Do you do wine tastings up there?" ... "How are you getting people to your wine tastings right now?" ... "Well, I'm not sure I can help, but I helped [winery] over there have the biggest wine tasting they've had all year. Would you be open to discussing it?"
Story · The Russell Brunson call You buy ClickFunnels and someone calls to thank you and offer the mastermind. Whole companies take customer databases and call low-ticket buyers into the next thing. The second helping is the same play, done with tappers and mail instead of phones.
Remember · Not a customer yet On Planet Mojo, people aren't customers until they buy at least twice, and Travis is coming to believe they aren't really customers unless they pay you every month.
Quick recap · What to sell existing buyers first (full version: Stage 3.2). Go down the ladder and only move a rung if you have to: the exact same thing (a reactivation), the same thing repositioned, something very similar, then a new or bundled offer on the "third date." A partner with 40,000 truck bed liner buyers? "More truck bed liners."
Warning Don't wait for a list of thousands. A handful of people moving through a group, list or customer base is enough to start.
(WOW §1, TP §8, SHC §01, §06, MM §5, FUT §09, PPM Part 5)
7.2The second-helping campaign: thank you, then the next thing
When to use it A partner has flow (front-end buyers every day) and a next thing that has sold before. Big Mojo is moving most of its campaigns to these "thank you" or "second helping" campaigns because the copy is written once and the partner's sales keep feeding it.
How it works · the campaign
- Confirm the flow and a proven next thing (the sweet spot is $1K-$3K; $5K or $10K works).
- Pitch the virtual sales team, not the copy.
- Test the thank-you T1 on their past-buyer email list. Give it 5-10 emails. You'll know in five.
- Hand raisers go to T2 (a couple of fit questions), then T3 (the offer on a payment plan, then a pay-in-full discount, 7.3).
- If it works, put it in their autoresponder and in triggered direct mail, so every new buyer gets it fast.
- If it doesn't, get out. No drama.
- A tapper works the replies. You take a revenue share as an affiliate on their cart.
| Step | What it does | Sample |
|---|---|---|
| T1 | Thank them, offer the next thing, ask if they want to hear about it | "Thank you so much for buying this widget. So wonderful to have you. We also have this advanced widget, or this next-level widget. Would you like to hear about it?" |
| T2 | Qualify the hand raiser | "Awesome. Nice to get to know you. Would you be okay if I ask you a couple questions and make sure that this next program would be a good fit for you?" |
| T3 | Present the offer on a payment plan, then the pay-in-full discount | See 7.3 |
Script "It's always: thank you, thank you so much, we have this next thing, would you like to hear about it, would you like to join us, or whatever it is."
- Whythe template in one line. Every version follows it.
Script "Thank you so much for buying our $2,000 thing. If you'd like faster results or bigger results, we've got this 50K thing. Would you like to hear about that?"
- Whysimple and direct. Most people assume it's too simple to work.
- Howframe it around faster or bigger results, not the price.
- Whenafter they buy the lower-ticket offer, such as a $2,000 thing sold through tapping, then a $40-50K offer.
Script "The biggest secret to upsells is to sell them the same damn thing they just got."
- Whywhat's the number one supplement upsell? Six more bottles.
- How"Here's how to crush it with Facebook ads" for $5K becomes "Here's how to crush it even harder" in the mastermind.
Script "I don't know what your goals are for your agency. If you just want to do one or two clients a month, that's awesome. If you really want to scale it to seven figures and have everybody else running it for you, we've got a program for that. Would you like to hear about it?"
- Whyan advanced version of what they just bought, not a new product.
Script "I'm not talking about doing inserts. I'm just talking about taking the people that have bought and saying, 'Thank you so much for buying this widget.'"
- Howa second mailing or email, not inside the shipment.
How it works · read the test, then automate
| What you see | What it means | What to do |
|---|---|---|
| Hate, "where's my refund?" | The list doesn't like the partner | Get out |
| Silence | The list is neutral to them | Maybe one more T1. Still pulling teeth? Get out |
| "Yes, tell me more" | It works | Roll it into the autoresponder and direct mail |
| Hand raisers stuck at T2 | T2 problem | Fix T2 |
| Gets to T3 but won't convert | T3 problem | Fix T3 |
| Piece | Role |
|---|---|
| Autoresponder | The thank-you email goes to every new buyer |
| Click2Mail | Starts and tests direct mail by hand; mail may need tweaks vs email |
| Postalytics | Sends a letter automatically when a buyer comes in, same day or after a delay |
| Junior tapper | Taps the people who come in, once T1-T3 and follow-up taps work |
| Reply channel | A Gmail address has "always worked" for them; text or live chat is faster where the demographic uses it |
Script "If you get it working even okay with their built-up list, it will work so much better when people have just bought."
- Whythe old-list test is the floor, not the ceiling.
Script "Then you just kick back. You manage your tapper or have somebody manage the tapper, and just let the customer bring in all the flow."
Story · The diet coach Buyers bought a diet book. Some loved the diet so much they wanted to coach it. The partner had a "become this kind of diet coach" program that had sold well; he just had no salesperson to keep it going. It surprised Travis that it worked.
Story · The first-week math A partner brings in 100 buyers a day. Close 5-10% in the first week on a $1,000-$2,000 program: "that's some pretty good money right there in the first week. And we don't have to keep writing emails." James does 30-40 sales a day; about 15-16 buyers reach out to him because open rates are so high, and he closes three of them a day.
Story · Too many takers After 150-200 sales at $2K, a $40,000 mastermind offer had to be stopped: too many people wanted in.
Story · The 300 who didn't buy Instead of selling live events for partners, run a thank-you campaign to people who attended but didn't buy (600 attended, about 300 bought, so mail the other 300). Often the timing just wasn't right.
Story · Montreal to Arkansas If you're trying to drive Kevin from Montreal to Russellville, Arkansas, it doesn't help to say "I'll only give you a hundred bucks in gas." You'll never make it. On one deal a partner had already agreed to 50%, and Travis took 40% so the partner had extra money to buy more front-end buyers, because he expected to make more that way.
Quick recap · Qualifying the partner and setting the split (full versions: Stage 1.8 and Stage 3.4). The partner needs daily flow and a next thing that has sold before ("Tell me about your flow. Tell me about the next thing that you have for sale."). Aim for about 50% of sales, including the monthly payments, set up as an affiliate on their cart. It's far easier when it's found money than when it's "their pie." "I'm sure you'd rather have 50% of a million dollars than 80% of $100,000."
Warning Don't chase 50 angles before you know the simple offer works. "Don't keep on trying to put lipstick on a pig." Don't call them "tappers" to partners; say "virtual sales team." And if emails are already in the autoresponder, consider letting them run and earn first, then start the triggered mail.
(SHC §01-08, BPW §09, KIS §5)
7.3AHAFrom asking for the FULL PRICE to WIDENING THE YES HOLE (millionaire math)
Why it matters "It's so much easier for somebody to say 'I'm in' at $220 a month than $1,000 down." A payment plan brings in 3-5x as many people. You present the monthly number, get the "I'm in," then offer the pay-in-full discount, and about half still pay in full. You end up with more cash up front than the full-pay-only approach and three times the customers to upgrade. "Instead of having a golf-ball-size hole, they open up a manhole-size hole. So many more are going to fall through."
How it works · the sequence
- Price the offer as a plan: $1,000 becomes $220 a month for 12 months ($2,640 total).
- Present only the monthly price. Don't mention the pay-in-full option.
- Get the "I'm in."
- Ask permission: would they like to hear about the pay-in-full discount? Offer $1,900 today (saves $740).
- About half take the full pay. Most of the rest complete the plan (70-80% on Planet Mojo).
- Deliver results. 30% or more upgrade to the next program.
- When a plan customer upgrades, pay off their remaining balance for them.
The price talk happens only along the top row; everything below it depends on delivery, which is why the upgrade box sits at the end and not the start.
| Scenario | Buyers | Contract value | Per month |
|---|---|---|---|
| Full pay at $1,000 (today) | 50 | $50,000 | n/a |
| Plan, same buyers | 50 | $132,000 | $11,000 |
| Plan, 2x buyers (his usual minimum) | 100 | $264,000 | $22,000 |
| Plan, 3x buyers (he sees this) | 150 | $396,000 (about 8x) | $33,000 |
| Plan buyers | Take full pay (about 50%) | Collected up front at about $2,000 | Upgrades at 30% |
|---|---|---|---|
| 50 (today, full pay only) | n/a | $50,000 | 15 |
| 100 | 50 | about $100,000 | 30 |
| 150 | 75 | about $150,000 | 45 |
Script "You just say it's $220 a month for 12 months. That's it. Don't talk about the money they could save on the full pay, because what you want to do is get the micro commitment to 'I'm in.'"
- Whyone number, one decision.
- Howin your T3, state only the monthly price and term.
- Whenduring the presentation, before any yes.
Script "After they say yes, ask: 'We have a pay-in-full discount, would you like to hear about it?' They say yes. 'I can save you $740 if you want to pay in full. $1,900 today. I don't have a horse in the race. What works best for you?'"
- Whyasking permission keeps it low pressure; "no horse in the race" removes any sense of being upsold.
- Howthe savings first, then the price, then hand the choice back.
- Whenonly after the "I'm in."
Script · The text or Messenger version "Perfect. So happy to have you. We've got a pay-in-full discount. Would you like to hear about that? I can save you $500 if you just want to pay this in full. I don't have a big dog in the fight. Which one's best for you?"
Script · The email version "Perfect. That's awesome. Let's get you enrolled. Here's your first step."
- Howby email, skip the back-and-forth. Send them to a cart showing both options and let them choose. 40-50% take the full pay, depending on niche.
Script · Tie it to the pain "We want to make this as affordable as possible. It's 10 payments of $2,900." Then: "You can make these changes, start seeing the money come in, stop closing for lunches."
Script "Let's say you give out 10 T3s and get two people on the payment program you have now. What if you give out 10 T3s and get four people to say 'I'm in,' and two of them pay in full?"
- WhenNathan worried about restaurants closing in five months. Travis: "Will you really be worse off for that?"
Script · Upgrading a plan buyer "The people that are on the payment program, if they up-level with me, I don't say cancel. I say I'll pay off your other one for you. Because I really want to give them an incentive to become a long-term customer."
Script · When a partner says nobody will pay 10 months for a six-week program "That's complete thinking and not data." And: "I sell three-day programs all the time and they pay me for 10 months."
How it works · cover the objection before the partner raises it A woman buys a Coach handbag for a couple grand, wears it a year, pays on it for 10. College lasts four years; you pay on it for 10, 15 or 20. The average US wedding is $30,000: one day of wedding, 10-15 years of payments. To the buyer, position it as financing so as many people as possible can get the result, not a cancel-anytime plan.
Story · Nathan's restaurant consultant A celebrity in the industry finds a $3M restaurant an extra $300K in about 24 hours of work from their spreadsheets, cost sheets and POS data. Price raised to $25K: five payments of $5K, or $24K paid in full. Since his only cost is time, Travis says be even more generous on payments, and later consider an 18-month or two-year plan.
Story · "You make the first payment, we'll make the second." An optional test: it gives the buyer 60 days to implement and earn the next payment.
Story · The $15,000 mastermind Offered as three payments of $6K or $15K paid in full. Travis split-tests adding a payment or two (T3A vs T3B). The extra revenue can cover the cost of his services, so the service costs the partner nothing.
Variation · 10 payments or 12? Millionaire Math uses 12 x $220. In Second Helping Travis says he prefers 10 payments over 12, because twelve can feel like "I can cancel any time." Both calls agree on the point (a small monthly number, fixed payments with an end), so start with 10 if you're unsure, and let a T3A/T3B test decide.
Variation · When to bring payment plans in Millionaire Math says try the payment-first presentation on your next campaign, even if it makes you nervous. Partner Picking Mojo says Travis no longer pushes it on a first date; he waits for the second or third, and Keep It Simple says don't raise a partner's price on the first date unless it's obviously too cheap. The difference is whose offer it is: on your own offer, go payment-first now; on a partner's first date, sell what they have as they sell it, then bring in millionaire math once the test has earned you the say.
Variation · Ask or show the cart? In a live conversation, ask permission before the pay-in-full offer. In a cart situation (self-serve, or an email thread where back-and-forth is clumsy), skip the question and show both options on the checkout page. Either way, half or more still take the full pay.
Remember · The payment completion numbers On Planet Mojo, about 70-80% complete a payment plan; Follow-Up Taps puts fixed payments with light at the end of the tunnel at 70-90%. "About 70 to 80% of folks complete the payment program. But that's not the real strategy why we offer the payment program." Customer count is the number to watch, not collection rate.
Warning Don't lead with the full-pay price or the savings, and don't split $1,000 into just 2 or 3 payments and call it a plan. Make sure the partner won't be mad if some stop paying after two or three payments. People usually stop paying because they didn't get the result, not because of the plan, so none of this works without delivery. The numbers on one call (10 x $2,900, $5K off) were, in Travis's words, "pulled out of my butt." Set your own.
Quick recap · When you don't offer payment plans (full version: Stage 6.6). "That's a perfectly legitimate request. Right now we're just rolling in folks that can write us a check for the entire investment." Some go figure it out; some say catch you later. Both are fine.
(MM §1-5, SHC §07, BPW §08, PPM Part 6, FUT §09)
7.4AHAFrom SUBSCRIPTIONS to selling FINANCING and PACKAGES
Why it matters Subscriptions rarely stick past three months; Follow-Up Taps puts the typical continuity stick rate at about three to five. A package on fixed payments raises the order value four or five times, and every payment is another chance to upsell, including "pay it off today and save." The offer is the problem solved, not the deliverable, so you can change the format, package it, change the terms or make a special edition without it being a "new offer."
Script "How do you sell continuity? You don't. What works way better is you sell financing."
- Whysmart marketers can't get subscribers past three months; "subscribe and get the $2,000 course free" is the exact wrong way.
- How10 payments of $99, then the pay-in-full discount.
- Whenany market of repeat $100 buyers, or a high-ticket offer.
Script "Stop worrying about the money. Make it easier for people to become customers and you'll never have to worry about money again."
- Whenwhen a partner pushes back with "I need my money now."
How it works · packages instead of memberships (Brandon's wellness centers, $65 a month for two uses)
- Get the churn data. "Don't let them weasel out with 'we think.'"
- At about $100 a month for 3 months, each member is worth $300.
- Offer a year: $1,200 paid in full, or 15 payments of $100. That's 4-5x the order value.
- Bundle what they already do free (six-month priority VIP support). Example: 12 payments of $199, or pay in full and save $500.
- "What if they don't pay?" They've paid the average already.
- Pitch: "Let's test three packages: $2,000, $5,000 and $10,000." Start with people who used to pay but don't anymore: money they'd never have had.
Script "What if we gave them a year? ... We'll even put it on a payment program for you."
Script · The price test "Let's just let data tell us. ... You're charging 500 now. Let's do a two-pay of 500 and a three-pay of 500."
- HowT3A / T3B (or ABC). Frame it as a free price test so nobody has to be right. Add bonuses if they feel guilty charging more.
Script · When the list knows the old price "That apple was a really good value at 500. It's going to be still a really great value when we raise the price again in the future."
Script "Just get in there, sell what they've got. Once you've got a few sales under your belt, they're going to do whatever you want."
- Whenraise prices after the test, not during. Exception: something obviously too cheap, like teaching six-figure commercial roofing deals for $500.
Story · $100 buyers become $1,200 buyers People who buy at $100 once will happily make 4, 6, 10, even 11-12 payments of $100. Conservatively, a payment option about doubles the yeses: 10 strategy calls might give 3 full pays today; with payments, 4 full pays plus 2 on payments.
Story · Land deals Some land Travis buys just needs financing added: put it on a 5- or 10-year plan and double or triple the price, because banks won't finance it. Change the terms, not the thing.
Story · The "turn back the years" package An e-com skincare brand sold brushes, serums and moisturizer separately. Bundled together at $700-800. The bigger play: a digital nutrition class for skin.
Story · Pent-up demand The first time Travis offered his live training virtually, 20 spots filled by lunchtime. Live to virtual is the same offer in a new format.
Remember · Price jumps Test big jumps quietly in T3 split tests ($4K to $12K, say). Give higher payers something extra. Announce a price increase only when you're 100% sure.
Warning Don't assume an ascension ladder ($7, $47, $97, $500). It's the journey, not the price steps: Travis has moved $7 buyers to $5,000 offers and $2,000 buyers to $42,000 offers, and seen it fail too. Don't sell live events for partners: one seat sold and hotels and food become a hot mess.
Quick recap · Other ways to lift an offer (full version: Stage 4.8). Charge for what they already do free, add a legacy bonus, reposition to a group, add a VIP experience, compress the time, change the terms.
(KIS §5, PPM Part 5-6, FUT §09, 5P §4)
7.5Special editions: a real reason and a real capacity
AHA · From a TIRED offer to a NEW EDITION of the same offer
Why it matters Selling something you sell all the time? You don't need fake time limits. Everyone has a capacity limit ("Can you sell a thousand packages?"), so use it. A fresh edition gives a list that has seen the offer many times a new reason to buy, and it works for physical products too. It also lets you raise a price the list already knows without a fight.
How it works Name the edition after a group or an occasion (Millennial Edition, a summer program, a birthday program), then state a real count as a fact. A fixed number + an edition name + their outcome.
Script "When you call something a special edition, it makes it weak copy. Figure out what the edition is."
- Whythe label alone is weak. The reason behind it (who it's for, what season, what event) does the selling.
- Whenany evergreen offer you want to promote again.
Script "I've set aside the time to build two lead gen funnels next month."
- Why"the old Dean Jackson trick": it states the capacity as a fact, not as pressure.
- How"I've baked some cookies. I've got five cookies. Would you like one?" They're already baked; there are only five.
- Whenservices and done-for-you work.
Script "Would you like to join us in smoothing out fine lines, removing dark circles, and rolling back the clock?"
- Whypaired with "We've set aside 50 special Roll Back the Years anti-wrinkle packages," it gives a physical product a named edition and a count.
- Whenproducts you ship.
Story · The Millennial Edition A client had sold his SEO package to his list two or three dozen times and "wore that sucker out." Travis repositioned it just for millennials on his list. It did $50K more.
Story · The Hell Hath Frozen Over sale One morning it was 17 degrees in Arkansas, which almost never happens. Travis put everything on sale "until the temperature starts getting back up," with a thaw-out theme all the way through. It crushed, on things he'd sold over and over.
Variation · One millennial story, told three ways Follow-Up Taps tells it as an SEO package sold to the list two or three dozen times, repositioned for millennials, $50K more. Keep It Simple tells it as a Google My Business course repackaged as "the millennial edition" for introverts at triple the price. Partner Picking Mojo tells it as a Google Places agency program made into a special edition for introverted millennials who want recurring income without being on the phone. The details shift with the point of each call (a new reason to buy, a higher price, a new who), but the lesson is the same: the program didn't change; who it was for did.
Remember "You almost can't get too ridiculous." And from the Q&A: an evergreen T3 can open a set number of spots for a period; a deadline isn't required.
Warning Don't write "special edition" with no reason behind it, and don't invent a capacity you don't have.
(FUT §02, KIS §5, PPM Part 5, T3P Q&A)
7.6The going-steady T1: you don't write it, you live into it
AHA · From WRITING a clever T1 to LIVING INTO it
Why it matters This is the T1 Travis says has made him the most money. It works because of what happens before you send it, not because of the copy. It sums up a relationship you have already lived through together, so the ask needs no convincing. "If there's got to be a lot of convincing going on, probably not at that point, or we're proposing too big of a step too early."
When to use it With people you've already helped: clients, first-date buyers, group members. Soon after a result, once they've tried the next part alone and felt it.
How it works · the template
Hey [name], [personal line / thank you]. We did great getting you A and B. Our real challenge now, the way I see it, is X and Y, so you can Z. Are you considering continuing on with me over the next year?
| Part | What goes there | Nate example |
|---|---|---|
| Hey + personal line | Personalize it. Travis likes to open with "thank you." | "I hope you're not freezing to death in Canada." |
| A and B | The result you just got together | Enrolling a few people into his first date offer |
| X and Y | The real challenge now that they have the result | Moving first-date buyers into his ongoing offer, and growing his audience for more first dates |
| Z | What they want to do or be once they have it | Spend more time serving and less time selling |
| Call to action | Ask if they'll continue with you, sized to the relationship | "Are you considering continuing on with me over the next year?" |
You don't need both letters. Use one or several: A, or A, B and C; X, or X and Y.
Script "Hey Nate, you did super great in enrolling a few people into your first date offer. I love your energy. The real challenge, the way I see it now, is getting those people from the first date into your ongoing, and maybe even adding more people to your audience so you have more first dates. That way you can spend more time serving and less time selling."
- HowA = the result (enrollments). X and Y = the next challenge (ongoing offer, bigger audience). Z = serve more, sell less. A compliment sits between the result and the challenge.
Script "Are you considering continuing on with me over the next year? 'Going steady with me' is the one I like to use, because of my junior high sense of humor."
- Howswap the wording for your own voice.
Script "What's the A and the B that I have to get them, and what is the challenge they must experience? Not you telling them, but the challenge that they have to experience."
- Howfill in the T1 first, then design the work so they live through every slot. "It's a little bit like chess. We know what our T1's going to be."
How it works · three things must already be true
| # | Condition | In the T1 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Joy of getting through a challenge together | A and B |
| 2 | Experienced pain about facing the next challenge without you ("If you tell it to them, it's not the same.") | X and Y |
| 3 | They grasp the stakes and the rewards, internal and external | Z |
The strongest reward is what they can do and be. Travis's own reward line: "If we can get your recurring income going, then you won't have to be on the phone all the time or doing sales all the time, and you can spend more time serving your people like a leader rather than selling your people like a salesperson."
Script "Give Heaven Island five minutes and it turns into Hell Island, because they're going to see another heaven."
- Whythe next sale is about their next challenge, not a price trick.
- Howafter they get the first result, name the next challenge, ask if it's a problem now and why, then send the details.
How it works · timing and channel
- One-to-one: "This is more powerful on a one-to-one reach out. It's intimate, super intimate."
- After the result and the longing: they've tried some of it alone and found it's not as easy as they thought.
- Not too late: if you go too long after the result, don't just try to enroll them; have a little back and forth first so you're on the same page.
- Who to send to: someone in your group who likes your stuff but hasn't reached out; email readers who opened 10 of your last 12 emails; people you've helped get results or insights.
- Feminine mojo (attraction, one-to-many) before masculine mojo (you reach out, one-to-one). "If you do masculine mojo without feminine mojo, it can feel pushy and pressury."
How it works · variations: keep the shape, size the ask
| Situation | Call to action |
|---|---|
| After a first-date offer | Continue with me over the next year |
| After a coffee date or a smaller step | A Zoom to discuss it |
| Past client | Jump on Zoom to discuss it |
| They said no | Come into the group |
| Stranger, no result yet | Coffee or a Zoom |
| They say yes | T2 and T3 with the details |
Sample · Past client "Hey, just wanted to check in with you. I know we got A and we got B. And I remember the challenge you were having was X. This is something I'm working on with people this year. Would you like to jump on Zoom and discuss it?"
Sample · After a no "That's totally cool. We got this A and B. We're working on these things in our group. Even if we don't do this together, how about you come into the group? Would you like a link?"
Sample · Stranger "Hey, I see you're the number one chiropractor in Los Angeles. That's amazing, you must be super busy. If you're like some of the other chiropractors I've worked with, you're trying to figure out how to get more people on a program instead of coming in ones and twos. Would it make any sense for us to discuss this over coffee or a Zoom?"
Sample · T1 into T2 and T3 "I'm putting a few people together. We're going to work on this. Would you consider joining us?" They reply yes; then "Perfect. I've put all the details here."
Story · The marriage proposal "Will you marry me? That's it. Is he going to say something magical? Is he going to kill an objection inside of the marriage proposal? No, it's about living up to that point."
Story · The pressure-based wedding "Pressure-based conversion would be more like: you're getting ready to marry her and you do a 60-minute VSL with a 30-day follow-up sequence. Then you discount the wedding, and you give her a deadline to buy." Leadership-based conversion is born from shared experience, a short ask and little copy; pressure-based lives in the head and needs convincing.
Story · Apple and the iPod "A thousand songs in your pocket" is the have and do. The white earbuds made younger people feel hip: that's the be.
Variation · The trigger-point version Trigger Points gives a shorter form for brand-new customers: "The world's greatest T1 is just a trigger point. Hey, now that you've gotten this result, the challenge is usually this. Would you like help with that?" It's the same shape (result, next challenge, a yes/no ask). Use the short form right after a purchase or a first result, when there's little shared history yet; use the full A-B / X-Y / Z version when you've lived a result together and can name it.
Warning The reward must fit the person. "If I'm talking to a group of salespeople that love sales, that's not going to be a very compelling after." And the honest drawback: "It's far simpler and requires far less copy. But we actually have to do stuff, and have people do stuff."
(BT1 §01-06, TP §8, 5P §4 Q&A)
7.7Change channels before offers
AHA · From finding a NEW OFFER to adding a NEW CHANNEL
Why it matters A working offer is the hard part. Once it works on one channel, keep the offer and add a channel: email to direct mail, a Facebook group, YouTube, SMS, or a letter inside the shipping box. Channels combined don't add, they multiply, and the likes and comments on a social post give social proof email alone can't.
When to use it After the first test works and the partner asks to mail more often or what else you can do.
Script "I like to change channels before I like to change offers."
- How"If we're doing $1,000 a week with a 10% open rate, what do you think happens when we start hitting their mailbox?"
Script "One plus one doesn't equal two. One plus one equals three or four."
- Howput the post up, send the email, and the tapper taps "up a tornado."
- Whenthe partner has a group or social page.
Script "Why in the ever-loving f*ck would I send direct mail to the whole list if I can just send it to the opens that were interested?"
- Whendirect mail and email live in the same database. Mail only those who opened that subject line.
How it works · mail only to hand raisers Send direct mail to a web page (a free report or a short pre-sale) so you can tag who visits, then send follow-up mail only to those people. 1,000 letters go out, 100 people hit the site, 10% of those reply: now you follow up with the 100, not the 1,000. It's like re-sending email to openers only, and it cuts mail cost by about 90% while keeping the conversions.
Story · The supplement company in the box Carlos's retainer client ships about 1,000 orders a month at about $100, with no sales literature in the box. Travis: write the letter, handle the inquiries, test it on email first, and once it works, print it and put it in the box.
Story · The dead Facebook group Same client; the group died when its founder left. Offer to start and run a new group, they seed it, and you agree a revenue share separate from the retainer.
Story · Check your mailbox Send an email telling them a letter is on the way. Both work better. (Travis started opening Perry Marshall's emails again once the letters arrived.)
Remember Direct mail is often an asset partners aren't using: "Let me just have at it." SMS gives you another list.
Warning With an existing retainer client, don't talk about replacing what you do; pitch the new channel as an additive test with a separate agreement. At $100 a pop, direct mail may be hard to make work: match the channel to the price. And direct mail won't always perform exactly like email; expect to tweak it.
(PPM Part 7, SHC §06, OMM §7, PPM Q&A)
7.8Multiply the offer, not the audience (the Offer Multiplier)
AHA · From "I need a BIGGER LIST" to "I need MORE OFFERS."
Why it matters Most businesses don't need more people. The audience isn't too small; it's tired of hearing the same pitch. Each specific offer makes a different slice of the audience raise their hand. People who'd never answer "anybody need a carpenter?" answer "anybody want their closet organized?" Slice enough ways and a small list behaves like a big one.
When to use it An offer works but the list is going quiet on it, or you want weeks of T1s from one proven service. You don't change what you do; you change what you talk about.
Script "It's really hard to get more until you learn how to do more with what you already have."
Script "It's not that he needs a bigger audience. The audience is tired of the d*mn offer that he's putting out there."
How it works · the sequence
- Pick a starting column. Any of the 6 questions works; When is usually easiest (Valentine's Day).
- Run the 6 questions: Who, What, When, Where, Why, How. Brainstorm several answers per column, then pick one per offer.
- Filter through TIMER: how does it save Time, serve Identity, save Money, save Energy, build Reputation?
- Turn sh*t into sugar: name what sucks about buying it and remove it.
- Make the sugar sweeter: add what helps them get the thing they're really buying.
- Test on your warm audience. Expect strikeouts, singles and a few home runs.
- Scale what sticks: go deeper on the winner, take it to cold traffic, swap one column and run it again.
Steps 1-2 · The 6 questions (Chris the carpenter's Valentine's walkthrough)
| Column | What it asks | Answers brainstormed on the call |
|---|---|---|
| When | What occasion or season? | Valentine's Day (start here). Later: spring, birthdays, national days |
| Who | Who is it for, or who buys it for whom? | Husbands who keep forgetting gifts; for the wife, daughter, son, boyfriend, girlfriend. Picked: husband buying for his wife |
| What | What specifically gets built? | Porch swing, love seat, gazebo, hot tub, sauna, pull-out spice rack, closet organization, dollhouse. Cold in February, so lean indoor |
| Where | Where does it go? | Kitchen, bedroom or walk-in closet, outside (playhouse, birdhouse for bird watchers) |
| Why | What are they really buying? | Admiration. Being the good husband |
| How | How is it delivered? | As a surprise; send them to dinner while you work; put them up at a romantic hotel and build while they're gone |
Script "Nobody wants carpentry services. They just want that thing to magically appear. If they can make it magically appear without all the headaches, they'd want that to happen."
Script "Has your wife wanted to get that closet organized, and you just never got around to it? Way more powerful than 'I do carpentry services.'"
- Howphrased as a question to the husband, not a claim about the carpenter.
Script "How many people in a 500-person group are going to be bird watchers? But if there are five bird watchers in there, aren't they all going to raise their hand? We're slicing the pie."
Step 3 · TIMER as a value filter
| Letter | Meaning | Valentine's example |
|---|---|---|
| Time | Saves them time | Saves him buying the present, flowers, candy |
| Identity | How we feel about ourselves | Good husband, good provider |
| Money | Saves or eases money | Financing over six months, "no payments until…" |
| Energy | Saves energy, or gives joy | He gets to eat the cooking; everything is handled for him |
| Reputation | How we think others see us | The admiration in his wife's eyes |
Script "Hey, look, I believe everybody should have an organized closet and guys should be heroes on Valentine's Day. That's why, even though I'm not a bank, I'm going to let you finance this out over six months."
- Whythe Money letter, delivered with a belief statement so financing feels like a stand, not a discount (millionaire math, 7.3, for a tradesman).
Script "I'm like, 'Oh my god, can I do this now?' That's how you know when your offer's on track. It's going to give you more premium pricing."
Quick recap · TIMER as objections (full version: Stage 4.6). In Stage 4, TIMER names the five sharks to kill in the offer. Here the same five letters work the other way round: as the value an offer adds beyond the service. The more letters it hits, the more premium the price it can carry.
Steps 4-5 · Sugar
| Move | Question | Kitchen remodel example |
|---|---|---|
| Sh*t into sugar | "What's going to suck about this?" | Sawdust and mess, no dinner for two days: delivery meals, a deal with the new restaurant in town, or the hotel stay |
| Make it sweeter | What are they really buying? (cooking mastery) | Stock the new spice rack with top-grade organic spices; new pots and pans; a chef comes for a cooking class |
Script "We're taking the risk out for them."
Story · The full Valentine's offer "If she's been asking you to organize her closet, not only will we do that, we'll send you to a romantic stay at the Capitol Hotel in Little Rock. Fresh roses, chocolates in the room. You're just going to be the hero."
Story · The local jewelry store Noticeably pricier than buying online, but they wrap it and add a dozen roses and a gold rose. Travis keeps buying there.
Steps 6-7 · Test, reuse and scale
Script "Some of these are going to be strikeouts, some will be singles, some will be doubles. You might get some home runs and some triples."
Script "If the spaghetti noodle sticks on the wall pretty good, then I'll just throw more of that kind of spaghetti noodle. I'll go deeper into that."
Script "They may have never thought of hiring a carpenter until you said tool shed."
Script "An hour's worth of brainstorming, you'll come up with weeks, if not months, of different things you can put out there and test."
Story · Rerun next year Say the Valentine's campaign does 20 jobs at $5,000 profit each. Next Valentine's: closet organization last year, gazebos (or hot tubs) this year. Swap one column. Or re-key off When: if the closet offer sold on Valentine's, run it for birthdays (a twelfth of your audience has one every month), or national days announced a week ahead.
Story · The 700-person list A client came with a list most people would dismiss. Travis made it perform like a 7,000-person list and pulled hundreds of thousands of dollars from it. Pull $500K a year from a 500-person group and that's $1,000 per member.
Story · Nathan's dozen After Travis shared the method the day before, almost a dozen people reached out to Nathan within a couple of hours, more than half he'd never talked to.
How it works · the same grid beyond carpentry
| Business | Generic pitch | Multiplied offer | Column |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ecom (Shopify stores) | "Here's why Shopify" | A dog product business for people really into pets | Who / What |
| Coaching (hospital nurses) | Coaching | Keep helping people heal, but from home, not the hospital | Where / What |
| Therapist coaching | Grow your practice | More time so he can go fishing | Why |
| Sales coach (Stephen) | Coaching | The "Let's Get Stephen Off the Road" plan | Why |
| Coaching | Make more money | "Retire your husband" challenge | What / Why |
| Business-model training | Learn the model | Bring one of your kids to learn it with you | Who |
| Weight-loss coaching | Lose weight | Set a good example; teach your kids healthy habits | Who / Why |
| Six-week course | Same content | Compressed into a three-day workshop, or done-for-you | How |
| Post-purchase offer | Webinar | A "love letter" right after people buy, in chat | When / Where |
Script "It's the same thing I was doing before. It's just how I positioned it."
Script "Sometimes, especially women, won't buy stuff for themselves, but they will buy it for their kids. You never sell heart attack prevention to the guy. You sell it to the wife."
Script "It's amazing how much money a little group of people spend. We just think, 'If they're not buying my stuff, they're just not buying.' That is not the case."
Variation · Multiply, or "the same offer until the wheels fall off"? In the 5 Ps Q&A Travis says to run the same offer until the wheels fall off, slicing it into angles from what the market says; Stage 5.3 warns not to slice on the very first test. The Offer Multiplier doesn't contradict that: it never changes the service, only who, when and why you talk about it. So the order is: prove the offer as it is, run it until it slows, then multiply its angles. You're slicing the same pie, not baking a new one.
Warning Don't write the Why bluntly. "You can't go in your copy and say, 'Hey, are you a sh*tty husband? I've got a way to turn this around for you.' You can tell little stories." Don't say the dark side out loud (cheaper than divorce); use it to understand the buyer. Don't default to "for all your ___ needs," years in business, or bashing competitors. And don't try to fill every column; fill enough to get ideas flowing.
Quick recap · Segmenting and cloning a winner (full version: Stage 8). When an offer is a gusher, split its hand raisers into their own list or group, put someone in charge, and run it as its own profit center. "Digital and IP and assets are clonable. They're reproducible." Put people in place before you clone.
(OMM §1-7, 5P Q&A, KIS §5)
7.9Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Kevin (SHC) | Do free-plus-shipping offers get an insert? | No inserts. Thank the buyers in a separate message (a second mailing) and offer the next thing. |
| Kevin (SHC) | So we test angles on email first? | Yes, but the simple version is just an advanced version of what they bought. If that doesn't work, don't hunt for 50 angles. |
| Kevin (SHC) | How many front-end sales does a partner need? | Depends on your income goal. At least $5K-$10K a month for you. He likes 50-100 orders a day. |
| Kevin (SHC) | How do they respond to the T1? | Reply to a Gmail address. Direct mail may go to a web page first, so you can tag visitors and mail only hand raisers. |
| Kevin (SHC) | Do you reposition their high-ticket offer? | Usually it's an advanced version of the front end. It must have sold before (the diet coach). |
| Kevin (SHC) | Do the people who stop paying offset the extra buyers? | The numbers are "ridiculous" in your favor. See the millionaire math (7.3). |
| Kevin (SHC) | Do you get 50% of the monthly payments? | Yes, about 50%. Don't get hung up on the number (he took 40% on one deal). |
| Kevin (SHC) | Is the 10 of hearts the virtual sales team? | Yes. A process, a system and a person who can take questions. |
| (MM) | How many will take the pay-in-full discount? | 50%+ typically. As low as 40%, as high as 80-90%, especially at the $1,000 level. |
| (MM) | Does this work at higher prices? | Yes. "So much easier to get somebody to come in at $990 for 12 months, or $990 for 10 months, than it is to plop down $5,000." |
| (MM) | Do I have to keep selling every month? | No. With a recurring base, many just serve the customers they have and run a new campaign when people drop off. |
| Nathan (BPW) | Should we offer pay-on-results instead of $25K? | Straight rev share has challenges. Use generous payments, then pay-in-full. Consider "you make the first payment, we make the second." |
| Chin (BPW) | How do I shape the offer without creating new products? | Shine the flashlight on what they already deliver. Upsell the same thing, bigger or faster. |
| Attendee (FUT) | Continuity or a payment plan? | Fixed payments with light at the end: 70-90% complete it. Continuity sticks about three to five. Even two payments puts you ahead. |
| Cherylyn (PPM) | Why do people still push full pay first? | Scarcity. Payments roughly double the yeses, and full pays still come. |
| Attendee (PPM) | How do you approach SaaS with several plans? | Learn flow, churn, and how many past customers stopped. First date: thank past customers profusely, say you miss them, make a special offer. |
| Carlos (PPM) | What could I offer my supplement retainer client? | An additive test with a separate agreement: a ~$1,000 "granddaddy" bundle on payments, a new Facebook group, a letter in the box. |
| Carlos (PPM) | What about the people who don't buy the special package? | Maybe a down-sell, but don't plan five steps ahead. Make it about the problem; let the market tell you. |
| Attendee (PPM) | How do I handle a big price jump ($4K to $12K)? | Test quietly in T3 split tests. Give higher payers something extra. Announce a price increase only when 100% sure. |
| Debbie (KIS) | My partner only has one program. What's the ongoing offer? | The deliverable isn't the offer. The same problem in a new format or modality isn't new. |
| Damian (KIS) | Is a related fitness program a new offer? | Close is fine (abs to arms). Further away, let the test decide. Prefer offers they've sold. |
| Brandon (KIS) | How do I move wellness centers off memberships? | Get churn data ($300 average), then test annual packages with payment plans, and $2K/$5K/$10K packages. |
| Marcus (KIS) | Should I always raise the partner's price? | Not on the first date, unless it's obviously too cheap. Test payment terms (T3A/T3B). |
| Marcus (KIS) | The list knows the old price. How do I raise it? | Great value at 500, still great when we raise it again. Or change the terms, or make a special edition. |
| Cherylyn (5P) | After the test, one offer or many? | The same offer until the wheels fall off. Slice it into angles from what the market says. |
| Comment (5P) | Should I lower a price to grow the audience, then sell high? | It's less about price than their next challenge. Payment plans reduce risk, not affordability. |
| Max (INF) | Do we upsell or cross-sell their offer? | Bring money they'd never have. Don't eat from the pie that pays their bills; find the back end. |
| Irene (OMM) | Can you give examples in a coaching environment? | Ask what they're coaching for: retire a spouse, more time at home, heal people from home. The offer is that outcome, not "buy my coaching." |
| Participant (OMM) | Do you segment your list, or let the email do it? | On his own list, rarely, unless the offer is off-topic. Now he segments and clones more, mostly for partners. |
| Comment (OMM) | Isn't this just stacking bonuses? | No. The sweeteners are organic: the plan for how the job happens, a bonus, and added value at once. They also open JV deals. |
| Comment (BT1) | What was the third condition? | Whether they've grasped the stakes and the rewards: the small wall you got over together, the big wall ahead, and what waits on the other side. Do and be are the most powerful. |
7.10Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Make the next offer almost immediately after the first purchase | Batch-mail buyers weeks later |
| Offer an advanced, faster or bigger version of what they just bought | Jump to a new product on the first date |
| Test 5-10 thank-you emails on the past-buyer list first | Spend on postage before the T1 is proven |
| Get out fast when the list hates the partner or goes silent | Put lipstick on a pig |
| Present the monthly price and term only, get the "I'm in" | Mention the full-pay price or savings before the yes |
| Ask permission before the pay-in-full discount (or show both in the cart) | Push the discount |
| Use 10 payments with light at the end | Split it into 2-3 payments and call it a plan, or sell cancel-anytime continuity |
| Cover the payment-plan objection with the handbag, college and wedding | Let partners decide on thinking, not data |
| Pay off the plan balance when someone upgrades | Treat a one-time buyer as a real customer |
| Package a year or a bundle on payments | Assume an ascension ladder of price steps |
| Give an evergreen offer a real edition and a real count | Write "special edition" with no reason behind it |
| Live into the going-steady T1 and send it one-to-one | Broadcast it, or rely on clever copy |
| Size the ask to the relationship | Propose too big a step too early |
| Change channels before you change offers | Re-mail the whole list every time |
| Pitch new channels to retainer clients as an additive test | Talk about replacing what you already do for them |
| Slice the same service by Who, What, When, Where, Why, How | Say "for all your ___ needs" |
| Hint at the real why through stories | Write the why bluntly |
| Go deeper on what sticks; swap one column to rerun it | Abandon a working angle for something new |
Mindset reminders
Customers are the assets. Money is the byproduct.
You can't get closer to the hole than someone who just went through it.
It's not the words that are magic; it's what happens before.
Your audience isn't too small. It's tired of the same offer.
It's counterintuitive and it will make you nervous to try. Do it anyway.
7.11Worksheet · My second helping
1. The flow and the next thing
| Question | My answer |
|---|---|
| Partner / product | |
| What's the flow? (front-end buyers per day) | |
| Front-end offer and price | |
| The next thing, and its price | |
| Has it sold before? How many? | |
| Why aren't they selling more of it now? | |
| Past buyers on the email list | |
| Found money or their pie? | |
| My estimated monthly share (aim for at least $5K-$10K) |
2. Millionaire math for this offer
| Input | My number |
|---|---|
| Current full price | |
| Buyers per campaign today | |
| Monthly price x number of payments (aim for 10) | |
| Plan total | |
| Pay-in-full price and the saving I'll show | |
| Next program and its monthly price |
| Scenario | Buyers | Contract value | Up front if 50% pay in full | Upgrades at 30% |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Today, full pay only | ||||
| Plan, same buyers | ||||
| Plan, 2x buyers | ||||
| Plan, 3x buyers |
3. My scripts
| Moment | My words |
|---|---|
| Thank-you T1 (thank you + the next thing + would you like to hear about it?) | |
| T2 fit questions | |
| T3 price (monthly only) | |
| Permission question after "I'm in" | |
| Pay-in-full offer (saving, price, which works best for you?) | |
| Upgrade offer (I'll pay off your other one) | |
| Payment-plan objection answer for the partner |
4. A special edition
| Item | My answer |
|---|---|
| The offer the list has seen too often | |
| The edition (who, season or event) | |
| The real capacity, stated as a fact | |
| Their outcome, in their words |
5. My going-steady T1 list
| Name | Where (client, first date, group, email) | A and B | X and Y | Z (do and be) | Size of the ask | Sent |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Draft: Hey ______, ______. We did great getting you ______ and ______. Our real challenge now, the way I see it, is ______ and ______, so you can ______. Are you considering ______?
6. The next channel
| Channel now | Next channel | Who gets it (openers / hand raisers only?) | Separate agreement needed? |
|---|---|---|---|
7. Offer Multiplier grid (one hour, one core service)
| Column | Answer 1 | Answer 2 | Answer 3 | Pick |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| When | ||||
| Who | ||||
| What | ||||
| Where | ||||
| Why (what they're really buying) | ||||
| How |
| What's going to suck about this? | How I turn it into sugar | Sweetener tied to what they're really buying |
|---|---|---|
| Offer (one line) | Columns used | Sent to | Hand raisers | Result (out / 1B / 2B / 3B / HR) | Next swap |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Before I launch a second helping
7.12Checkpoint
You're ready for Stage 8 when
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| You keep hunting new buyers and ignore the ones who just bought | 7.1 The second hole |
| The thank-you T1 gets hate or silence | 7.2 (read the test) and Stage 1.8 (the partner's flow) |
| Plenty of interest, few yeses at the full price | 7.3 Millionaire math |
| The partner fears people won't finish paying | 7.3 (cover the objection) and 7.4 |
| Members churn out after three months | 7.4 Packages and financing |
| The list has heard the offer too many times | 7.5 Special editions and 7.8 the Offer Multiplier |
| You're writing long copy to people you've already helped | 7.6 The going-steady T1 |
| A working offer has stalled on email | 7.7 Change channels |
| You think the list is too small | 7.8 Multiply the offer |
| You're tempted to build a new product | Stage 3.2 (what to sell first) and Stage 4.8 (shine the flashlight) |
Scale: From Mechanic to Shop Owner
What this stage settles: how to stop being the bottleneck. You put a dollar-an-hour value on every task and hand off from the bottom up, run tappers on a schedule, standardize the conversation so nobody has to be a genius, turn copywriting into an assembly line, clone what works into new lists and groups, and move from selling a skill to controlling assets and distribution. You keep only the work worth $1,000-5,000 an hour: reading the data and finding the hot button.
Why it comes here: you can only hand off a system that already works. Before Stage 7 there's nothing steady to delegate; a junior tapper can't run a T2 you haven't mapped, and a copywriter can't write to a hot button you haven't found. Stage 8 is last because it multiplies whatever you've built, good or bad. It's also where the path loops: every new partner or asset runs back through Stages 1-7, now with a team.
Prerequisites:
- Stage 7: at least one stream earning on its own, with a proven T1, T2, T3 and follow-up taps.
- Stage 6.9: an inbox with tags and canned responses someone else could pick up.
- Stage 0.6: you judge every dollar by the energy it costs.
- Margin: enough in the deal to pay other people. "You want to acquire the assets with enough meat on the bone that you can bring other people in to do everything else."
Come back to this stage when: you're doing 40-email T2s by hand, you're burning out, "I'm in" replies wait because you're busy, you have more deals than hours, a winning offer could be its own list, or you're tempted to add a fifth or sixth partner.
8.0Stage at a glance
The build order
- Check margin: is there enough to bring other people in?
- Label every task by its rough dollar-an-hour value.
- Hand off from the bottom up: junior tapper first (hire two), then senior tapper, copywriter, project manager.
- Standardize: a short T2 any junior can run, leads sorted into avatars, canned responses.
- Separate the offer work from the writing work, and reuse what wins.
- Clone winners into their own lists, groups and channels.
- Acquire assets and distribution; keep partners few and go deep; plug into a network for the overflow.
One-line rules
- "Start with your lowest dollar-an-hour stuff first, and work your way up."
- If the system needs superstars, hiring superstars becomes your constraint. McDonaldize it.
- "Sifting and sorting is more powerful than copy."
- "Your highest level skill is acquiring assets."
- "Digital and IP and assets are clonable. They're reproducible."
- "You need more leverage when you're going through it, not less."
- "One man or one woman can't make all the money in the world."
8.1AHAFrom doing it ALL to doing only the $5,000-AN-HOUR work
Why it matters The highest-value work is reading the data and tweaking the offer. Everything below that can go to someone else, and none of it needs a high-level skill like taking strategy calls. Every objection a tapper hears goes into your T1s and T3, and marketing is "infinitely leverageable" where sales calls are not. Travis frames it with Eli Goldratt's theory of constraints.
How it works · the team, by rough value
| Role | Rough value | What they do |
|---|---|---|
| Offer / strategy (you) | $1,000-5,000/hr | Take the data, work out what's going on, tweak the offer; find where the hot button is now (markets change, so hot buttons change) |
| Project manager | Next down | Runs the client relationship and watches it all, once you have 3-5 people (Travis has clients he hasn't talked to in three months) |
| Copywriter (or copywriter-tapper) | Below that | Works from templates and the T3, often adapting the partner's own copy and videos; not a $300/hr writer |
| Senior tapper | $30-40/hr | Runs the standard T2 back-and-forth; handles "I'm not sure this works for me because..."; trains the next junior |
| Junior tapper | $20/hr | Copy-paste scripts to hand raisers; basically customer service; no thinking |
Read it bottom to top: the first hire is the cheapest, most scripted work, and each step up frees you for the row above, until only the top row is yours.
Script "Look at the things you do as $5,000-an-hour work. Then look at what's the $20-an-hour work you're doing. Start with the $20-an-hour work, start eliminating that, and work up until you're just doing your $5,000-an-hour work."
- WhenNishant's burnout question: 40-email T2s on a 10,000-buyer list, with a 113,000-person list next.
Script "Start with your lowest dollar-an-hour stuff first, and work your way up."
- Howhire two. When Travis managed salespeople, one doing 20K and one doing 30K, lovingly pitted together, did more than 50K. If one doesn't work out, you've got the other, or you promote the stronger one to senior tapper.
How it works · look at the whole system, not one number A 10% close on 100 opportunities beats 30% on 30. You will lose some conversions when you standardize; you win them back through the T1s and T3.
Story · The fuse and the screwdriver As a 20-year-old radar tech in the Navy, circling Hong Kong, Travis had a short that blew a fuse five minutes into every power-up. The six-step method would take two days. The fast way: bridge the fuse and watch where the smoke comes out. His advice to Brandon on going bigger: go get the big partner, have the 300 messages waiting, and solve it then. "Fast is not the comfortable way." The other half is leverage, and enough margin to pay for it.
Warning Don't grind your own $20-an-hour work when you're moving, marrying or overloaded. Don't start with high overhead before the work is there, and don't hire from the top down. And don't get hyper-focused on the dollars: "Money is a byproduct of assets."
(INF §08, BQA §06, DPT §7)
8.2Tappers: who, when and how much
When to use it Your T2, T3 and canned responses work, and replies are arriving faster than you can answer them well.
How it works · the numbers Travis shared
| Measure | What he said |
|---|---|
| Conversion when dialed in | At least 8% of everyone who qualifies on the T2 |
| Phone comparison | About 25% on the phone, but far less volume |
| Price effect | No drop-off from 8% going from $2K to $6K to $20K offers; fewer replies to year-long programs |
| Ascension | Taking people from $2K offers to $40K offers |
| Time per day | About an hour, plus a half hour in the evening to catch "I'm in" replies |
| Capacity | 4-5 conversations at once, across 2-4 partners; one tapper can work three or four deals |
Script "Once you've got the T2 and the T3 right and the canned responses, really the skill we need them to do is be able to read between the lines a little bit: what are they trying to get you to hear?"
- Whypeople tell you things for a reason. Feed it back to them.
- Howtrain on reading the subtext, like the "sure" before "send me the link."
Script "The only time I get a little antsy, I'm doing a little jig, is 'I'm in.'"
- Howlet T1, T2 and T3 replies sit and batch them once or twice a day. Get payment links out to "I'm in" replies fast.
Script · The junior tapper's opener "Hey, I'm giving Brandon a hand today. My name's Travis. Hope that'll be alright. He's got a couple questions. First, can you tell me a little about your situation?"
- Whyonce the market is mapped, there are only three or four situations. A junior tapper can handle them with scripts.
Script · Scheduling around send days "I need you Wednesday between 8 and 10, and pop in for half an hour at 5 PM."
- Whymost responses come in the first hour or two after a mailing. Brandon asked how to avoid paying for idle days.
- Howset availability around your send days. Start with one day as a test, then offer more. Lots of people are happy with a couple of hours a week.
How it works · who to hire
- Look in your own audience first. Everyone who works for Travis was on his list at one point.
- Copywriters (abundant) or ex-salespeople who aren't selling now. Commission salespeople may be used to the 20-25% phone close rate.
- Familiarity with the market matters more than location; it's hard to train someone who's never flipped a house for a real estate offer.
- "Perfect English" really means: can they listen deeply and know when to go deeper?
- Travis's own view, which he prefaced with "not trying to be sexist": women are often better at empathy, deeper questions and nurturing.
- Share tappers with others in your group when one has spare hours. One tapper can handle lots of Gmail accounts.
Variation · "An hour a day" vs "a couple of hours a week." The T3 Process call says about an hour a day covers most single businesses; the Q&A call says start a tapper on a couple of hours around your send days. They describe different points in the build: a part-time tapper timed to one partner's mailings at the start, then roughly daily coverage once several partners are mailing. Staff them later, not at the start.
Remember · Tappers don't overcome objections Kill the sharks in the offer and the five TIMER objections before the prospect ever reaches the tapper (Stage 4.6). With partners, say "virtual sales team," not "tappers."
Quick recap · The inbox a tapper inherits (full version: Stage 6.9). A plain VIP Gmail, tags for where each person is, canned responses so tappers tweak instead of copy-paste, and "I'm in" replies never waiting.
Warning Don't hire for location or accent over listening skill. Don't leave "I'm in" replies sitting. Don't send a big checkout page; bare minimum only.
(T3P §9, BQA §06, INF §08, SHC §06, §09, FUT §07)
8.3McDonaldize it: standardize the conversation, sift and sort
AHA · From CUSTOM conversations to a SYSTEM nobody has to be a genius to run
Why it matters After enough conversations, two or three answers tell you who's in. You no longer need 40 emails per lead. Different people buy the same thing for different reasons, so you route them instead of rewriting for everyone. McDonald's works because nobody has to be a genius.
How it works
- Turn your long back-and-forths into a short standard T2 (2-3 questions) a junior tapper can run.
- Sort leads into avatars. Usually there are about three.
- Give each avatar its own path or T3 section.
- Feed every objection a tapper hears back into the T1s and T3.
Script "Sifting and sorting is more powerful than copy."
- HowRon goes into a company, finds its three avatars, and writes a sequence for each. In real estate: zero deals, one deal, or several a year each take a different path.
- Whenwhen your dig keeps finding different buttons (retirement vs quitting a job vs paying off debt).
Script "I call it peanuts and beer. I'm always selling the same beer. I'm just putting different peanuts out there."
- Whynew angles extend one offer for years. Travis ran his relationship advice offer from 2008 to 2016 this way.
How it works · the sales sandwich (do you need separate T3s?)
| Layer | What it is |
|---|---|
| Top bread | The pain or problem they have now |
| Meat | The plan |
| Bottom bread | The price of keeping the problem (not the price of your product) |
Same plan for everyone: one T3, with a section per group (e.g. "Not sure it was a panic attack? Here are the top symptoms"). Different plan: a different T3, maybe a different product.
Warning You'll lose a little conversion when you standardize. Accept it, and win it back in the copy.
(INF §08, Q&A)
8.4The copywriter assembly line and reusing winners
AHA · From "WRITE ME SOMETHING" to handing writers the INGREDIENTS
Why it matters Offer positioning "is a $1,000-an-hour talent" and the writing "is, I don't know, a $20-an-hour talent." Mashing them together is where copywriters struggle. Separate them and everything gets easier and cheaper.
How it works · the triangle of insight (every email brief)
| Part | Relationship example from the call |
|---|---|
| Symptom | He just gives her a little peck on the cheek |
| Metaphor / story | Use the Gone with the Wind story (from recorded client interviews) |
| Wisdom | Guys don't do it to be mean; they just don't know any better. So how do you have that talk? |
| Segue | How that leads into the offer |
Script "We can't just say, 'Bake me an apple pie.' We have to go to the store, buy all the ingredients, give them the recipe, and then let them go do it."
- Whyotherwise "I'm in the mood for pie" gets you apple when you hate apple.
- CreditCasey figured out "we've got to tell them what to write."
How it works · the line
- The writer gets the triangle of insight and writes the email.
- It goes into Asana, then to a professional editor.
- A tech person loads it into the autoresponder.
- Pay: a base of about $50-$100 per T1, depending on the writer, plus about $50 per sale it brings in (up to $500 per email this way).
Writers like it because they don't have to find pain points or touch the tech. "Why would we want our copywriter doing the tech work?"
How it works · reuse what works "I have emails that went out to my women's list... the same email go out 50 times." "What men are really looking for in [year]" ran every year and worked every time. His project manager picks the reruns. Change only the subject line to call out a whole new group, or find-and-replace the audience and resend with minor tweaks.
Story · Amazon suspensions Right before Prime Day, Amazon booted a bunch of sellers, and CNBC ran a story. Subject line: "Amazon suspensions." The email told one seller's story by name, then: "This is why we've decided to open up 20 spots in our mastermind." Day one, a $20K mastermind sold. One person's story beats "everybody."
Story · The 2005 list His bum-marketing list started in 2005 still pulls $25K, $50K, $75K a mailing, because every email has a brain-gasm and he never "picks up the ball."
Remember · Drucker "There are only two things that make money in your business: marketing and innovation. Everything else is an expense. That includes sales." Marketing assets are leverageable; sales are hard to leverage.
Quick recap · The subject line (full version: Stage 5). "The subject line is the bouncer for the nightclub." Same email, new subject line, new group called out.
Warning Don't hand writers "here's what we sell, here's our avatar, have at it." Don't make writers do the upload.
(T3P §10, ST3 §9)
8.5AHAFrom ONE LIST to many: segment, clone and open sublist groups
Why it matters "Digital and IP and assets are clonable. They're reproducible." When an offer takes off, you can split those hand raisers into their own list or group, put someone else in charge of it, and run it as a separate profit center without taking anything from the main list. "The reason data is awesome is because it's capital. It means you can use it and not spend it down."
How it works · when to segment
| Situation | Segment? | Travis's reasoning |
|---|---|---|
| Your own list, offer on topic | Rarely | Even non-buyers learn you sell it (the red pumps example) |
| Offer a bit off the list's topic | Yes | A list-building list hearing about Facebook groups: split off the interested ones |
| An offer is a gusher | Clone it | Test on the main list first, then move the hand raisers to their own group or list |
| Working for partners | More often | Gets him out of the partner's hair and onto assets they don't use |
How it works · the sublist group
- Ask in the big group or on the email list who'd be open to learning more about the topic.
- Funnel the yes-people into a new group for that offer.
- Run the whole campaign there. Joining is a second commitment step after the hand-raise.
Script "How many of you would be open to learning more about crypto? If I was to put a group together like that, watch all the hands go up, or not go up."
- Whenthe offer fits one segment, or your main group has a no-promotion culture.
- Why"If they won't join the group, guess what? They're not going to join your program either." It saves you time on weak offers.
Script "You might even come out and say, 'I'm not going to give you all my best secrets. I save that for my clients.'"
- Whybe transparent about what the group is for. You don't call it a sales group; you say it's where you'll share more about what you're doing.
How it works · cloning mechanics
- Usually a segment inside the partner's own system, using a login to their CRM.
- Email to group: invite them, and treat the group like an opt-in page that collects email and physical address.
- Email to snail mail: physical addresses often already sit in Stripe, PayPal or Zoho Subscriptions records.
- Reverse opt-in: "We'd like to send you deals on accessories. If you don't want that, click here." You keep most people.
- Be cool about how you collect data; raise-your-hand opt-ins are the cool way.
Story · Backend Agency Mojo Travis told his profile and list that the money is in back-end agencies, not front-end ones, and invited them to a group. About 400 joined. He sold 12 seats to a live workshop in Little Rock at $8K each, then 12 virtual spots that sold out in about 9 hours. Over a quarter million dollars from that one group.
Story · Email list to group Matt asked if he should move his email-list traders into a Facebook group: "If you like money." Faster responses, a tapper can be an admin and handle the DMs, you see what they like, and social proof: they can see 110 people asked for 12 spots. Run the list and the group together and funnel each into the other.
Story · Crock-Pot and microwave groups The Crock-Pot group stays around long term. A microwave group is spun up for one topic. An Amazon pet-products program can become its own segment with someone in charge and its own tappers, while the main list keeps running untouched.
Story · Cloning a 70,000-customer win It can become Facebook groups run by others ("40+ men," "competition") that Travis seeds.
Remember "Building a free group without pitching is like putting together an email list and never sending an offer." And: "If they're not buying from you, they're buying from someone else. You're ripening the fruit and somebody else is picking it."
Warning You can't run five lists by yourself. Put people in place before you clone, and only clone what's already working. Don't call a group a content group, then only sell and abandon it; people will get angry.
(OMM §7, ST3 §9, DPT §7 Q&A, PPM Part 9)
8.6AHAFrom selling a SKILL to acquiring ASSETS and DISTRIBUTION
Why it matters Selling a skill is capped by your time and energy. An asset (a list, a group, a mailing database) can be cash-flowed again and again, and others can do the delivery. With an audience in hand, offers come to you on good terms. "The biggest wealth shortcut in the world is to find somebody that has a huge amount of assets, knows they can't mine them all, and is happy to turn them over to you."
Script "Your highest level skill is acquiring assets."
- How"You want to acquire the assets with enough meat on the bone that you can bring other people in to do everything else."
Script "Usually getting control of distribution or the audience first is the tail that wags the dog."
- How"I've got 50 offices and here they are. Would you like your lunch special to go out to them?"
Script "I don't acquire businesses. I just want their databases."
- Whyyou get the value without the operating hassles.
Script · The backend agency offer "If I paid for the postage, if I did all the selling, if I wrote the copy, would you split the money? 40/60. You keep 60, I keep 40."
- Whendirect mail, a trash-can asset most owners aren't using. Fees run 30-50% of gross; they usually double or triple the price and still sell.
Script · Before you split a new asset "Realistically, let's have a frank discussion. Do you guys want to do it yourself?"
- Howget them to say out loud they'll never use the direct mail list (or group, or SMS list). If they want to do it themselves, great. If not: split whatever comes from it 50/50.
How it works · distribution and transparency Partners you bring together become a distribution network. "I just tell them everything": tell each side why you're investing. Once you're bringing partners, you can ask a product owner for a bigger front-end share, or even equity.
Story · The biggest mistake As an affiliate around 2008-09, Travis's promotions made others promote too, but he only took commissions. Not partnering long-term was "probably the biggest mistake I made in my career." His current version: a $1,000 affiliate offer at 100% commission. He brings the marketing, the audience owner brings the list, they split 50/50 less the card fees he covers.
Story · The 70,000 list deal The product owner takes no commission; Travis and the list owner split 50/50. The product owner gets new customers for his back end. His only ask: don't stick him with processing fees.
Story · Margin first, then traffic Bridging two partners (a $2,000 meditation course and a meditation app with 100,000 churned users): sell the course first so you know who buys, then bring in the big low-ticket audience. One diet program turned out to be 60% nurses; now he can buy nurse lists.
Story · The fax lunch specials In the mid-to-late 90s Travis had wrecked a business and was late on rent before Christmas. He called local offices for permission to fax them daily lunch specials and got 50-100 on the list. His first restaurant, asked for a one-month trial, said "How much is it for six months?" Later lesson: insurance offices ordering 20 lunches at a time were the real prize.
Story · The auto dealer halo A woman doing reputation management was cold calling dealerships. Travis had her call the local auto dealers association instead and offer a free member training on handling bad reviews. 30-40 dealers showed up per webinar, and at the end she offered, "If you'd prefer, I'm happy to handle this for you."
How it works · the referral side Pay people who send you deals 10% of what you make as the agency, until it reaches $10,000 (he's tried $50,000 and lifetime; it didn't add excitement). Lead with helping their audience: "I know you're not doing this for the money. I know you just want to help your people out. But I like to take care of people that take care of me."
Quick recap · Producer, not creator (full version: Stage 0.5). "When we stop needing to be the creator of all the assets and value and step into a producer role, our money mojo goes out the roof." A producer doesn't act, hold the camera or write the script; he knows the order: a good script, the right actors, the investors, then everything else.
Quick recap · Resourceful owners (full version: Stage 1.2). "Resourceful people have resources, and the reason they have resources is because they have no problem turning those resources over to people."
Warning Don't fight for the front-end pie; they've eaten every crumb. Don't buy lists; get owners to turn theirs over. Don't stay happy with one-off commissions when you're really building distribution. And only sell what was agreed, at the agreed prices; bring new ideas to the partner first.
(DPT §7, T3P §11, KIS §6, PPM Part 9)
8.7Keep partners few, go deep, and plug into a network
AHA · From MORE PARTNERS to DEEPER partners
Why it matters Scaling isn't adding partners until you drown. Travis keeps four partners and doesn't want more than four or five; he hands extras to others and goes deeper with the ones he has. "One man or one woman can't make all the money in the world." A network lets you pass deals you can't reach and receive deals from others.
How it works
- Bigger assets over more deals: aim for at least 10K a month for you per partner. "It's the same amount of work to send an email to 1,000 prospects as to 50,000 buyers. But the money's different."
- Don't multitask several tests at once. Put people on the calendar ("fall of this year").
- Openers and operators can team up. "Closers always work for the best openers." Post in your group to find an operator.
- Share tappers and deals inside a small group of people doing deals.
Story · Travis's own network The Castle is his small paid group for people already running Beamer deals, with Ron Lynch and Jordan Hall ("60 years and $6 billion worth of offer experience"). Members pass deals to each other; one tapper can work three or four deals. He also offers 10% help to people who already have a partner ("you're 90% of the way there"): "I wanted it to be an amount that could be significant for me, but at the same time an easy decision for you." Marcus went from a sale a week to a sale a day and now farms out deals to other members.
Remember If a partner squeezes the split until the numbers don't work, say so and walk. And keep agreements tested: if they don't come to Zooms on time, don't expect to get paid on time.
Warning Don't multitask several tests and partners at once; schedule them. Don't start with high overhead before the work is there. And don't take a deal that's too complex because it pays: optimize for energy over money.
(PPM Part 9, BQA §09, INF Castle, Q&A)
8.8Questions people asked at this stage
| Who (call) | Question | Travis's answer |
|---|---|---|
| Nishant (INF) | I made $20-25K on a 50/50 test but I'm burning out on 40-email T2s, and a 113K list is next. | List your $20-an-hour work and hand it off: junior tapper, senior tapper, copywriter, project manager. Standardize the T2 to 2-3 questions. Accept a small conversion loss. |
| Nishant (INF) | Hot buttons differ: retirement, quitting the job, paying off debt. | That's normal. Usually there are three avatars. Sift and sort them into separate paths or T3s. |
| Brandon (BQA) | How do I stop being the mechanic? | Check margin, label tasks by dollar per hour, hire from the bottom (junior tapper first), hire two. |
| Brandon (BQA) | How do I pay tappers fairly with random replies? | Set availability around send days (e.g. Wednesday 8-10 plus 30 minutes at 5 PM); start with one day as a test. |
| Brandon (BQA) | Domestic or overseas tappers? | No right answer. Market familiarity and deep listening matter most. |
| Brandon (BQA) | Several tests and partners at once? | Don't multitask. Put people on the calendar. |
| Brandon (BQA) | Separate affiliate portal for partner traffic? | Plug into a network that passes deals; you'll have more than you can get to. |
| Matthew (BQA) | I'm a great opener, not an operator. | Team up with an operator. "Closers always work for the best openers." |
| Brandon (PPM) | Bridging two partners: work with each first? | Prefer to sell the high-margin offer first, then bring the big audience. You'll know exactly who buys. |
| Attendee (T3P) | How much tapper time? Reply right away? | About an hour a day. Batching is fine; just don't make an "I'm in" wait. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Who makes a good tapper? | Copywriters, or ex-salespeople who aren't selling now. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Same subject line on different emails? | He does lots of things: changes only the subject line to call out new people, or find-and-replaces the audience. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Do you buy lists? | No. Get owners to turn their lists over. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Whose merchant account? | Usually the client's, with a deposit up front. Not screwed yet since 2015. |
| Attendee (T3P) | Do you build landing pages? | "It comes up. I politely decline." |
| Jeff (DPT) | How does cloning email to snail mail work? | Usually a segment of addresses they already have. Stripe, PayPal or Zoho hold physical addresses. Groups work like opt-in pages. |
| James (DPT) | How do I get affiliates for my new $150-250 product? | Get sales data first, then offer one or two top-tier list owners 100% commission and write the emails for them. Their direct mail list may be a trash-can asset. |
| Erin (ST3) | My group bans promotion. How do I sell in it? | Open a new sublist group for the offer and invite people in. A group with no pitch is like a list with no offers. |
| Erin (ST3) | What happens to the group after the sell-out? | If it's a content group too, it stays. Engagement came right back, and people kept referring others. |
| Tony (ST3) | How do I start a group that stands out among all the coach groups? | Go narrow: specific people with a specific problem beats size. |
| (ST3) | Why the shift to "tapper" positioning? | "Salesperson" makes people think 10-15%; he wants 30-40%. A new name has no box. |
8.9Do's and don'ts
| Do | Don't |
|---|---|
| Check margin before you hire anyone | Start with high overhead before the work is there |
| Label every task by dollar per hour and hand off from the bottom | Hire from the top down |
| Hire two junior tappers and promote the stronger one | Hire for location or accent over listening skill |
| Schedule tappers around your send days | Pay for idle days, or leave "I'm in" replies waiting |
| Standardize the T2 to 2-3 questions and sort leads into avatars | Keep running 40-email conversations yourself |
| Feed every objection back into the T1s and T3 | Make tappers handle objections the offer should kill |
| Hand writers the triangle of insight | Hand writers "here's what we sell, have at it" |
| Rerun winning emails with new subject lines | Retire a winner after one send |
| Clone a gusher into its own list or group, with someone in charge | Try to run five lists yourself |
| Be transparent about what a sublist group is for | Call it a content group, then only sell and abandon it |
| Acquire assets and distribution; split new assets fairly | Fight for the front-end pie, or buy lists |
| Keep partners to four or five and go deeper | Multitask several new tests at once |
| Plug into a network to pass and receive deals | Try to make all the money in the world yourself |
Mindset reminders
You're the shop owner, not the mechanic.
Fast is not the comfortable way.
You need more leverage when you're going through it, not less.
Money is a byproduct of assets. Water the roots.
8.10Worksheet · My scale plan
1. My dollar-an-hour ledger (start eliminating from the bottom)
| Task I do now | Rough $/hour | Who could do it (junior / senior / copywriter / PM / me) | Hand off by |
|---|---|---|---|
2. Margin check
| Item | My number |
|---|---|
| Monthly revenue from this stream | |
| My share | |
| What a junior tapper costs at my send schedule | |
| What's left after the team |
3. Tapper plan
| Item | My answer |
|---|---|
| Send days and times | |
| Tapper hours (first 1-2 hours after each send, plus an evening check) | |
| Where I'll look first (my own audience?) | |
| The 3-4 situations my scripts cover | |
| Canned responses ready | |
| Who trains the next junior |
4. My standard T2 and avatars
| Avatar | How I spot them (2-3 answers) | Their path or T3 section |
|---|---|---|
5. Email brief (triangle of insight)
| Part | My brief |
|---|---|
| Symptom | |
| Metaphor / story | |
| Wisdom | |
| Segue to the offer |
6. Assets I could clone or acquire
| Asset (list, group, mail list, SMS, customer database) | Owner | Used now? | Clone into | Who runs it | Split |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
7. My partners and network
| Partner | Monthly to me | Going deeper by... | Keep / pass to the network |
|---|---|---|---|
8.11Checkpoint
You've finished the path when
Then loop: every new partner, asset or offer runs back through the path. Pick the partner (Stage 1), open the door (Stage 2), propose the test (Stage 3), find what they're really buying (Stage 4), run the T1-T3 (Stage 5), tap it in (Stage 6), collect more (Stage 7), and hand it to the team (Stage 8).
Stuck? Go back to:
| If you notice this | Reread |
|---|---|
| You're burning out on conversations | 8.1 The $5,000-an-hour work and 8.3 McDonaldize it |
| You hired and it's not working | 8.2 Tappers (who to hire, hire two) |
| Everyone needs a custom reply | 8.3 Sift and sort |
| Writers keep missing the point | 8.4 The triangle of insight |
| A winning offer is crowding the main list | 8.5 Segment, clone and sublist groups |
| Your income is capped by your hours | 8.6 Acquire assets and distribution |
| Too many partners, nothing deep | 8.7 Keep partners few |
| The stream you're scaling has stopped earning | Stage 7, then Stage 5.7 (read the numbers) |
Appendix
A.1Script finder
Find the moment you're in, then go to the section for the full script and its Why / How / When notes.
| When you need to... | Start with | Section |
|---|---|---|
| Check your own stance before reaching out | "I'm an investor. I'm not a savior." | 0.4 |
| Decide if a partner is worth a coffee date | "Always bet on the jockey, not on the horse." | 1.1 |
| Size a partner by the numbers | "What dollar goal do I want out, and what energy do I want to put into this?" | 1.3 |
| Qualify a partner for a thank-you campaign | "Tell me about your flow. Tell me about the next thing that you have for sale." | 1.8 |
| Open a cold conversation | Something only they could receive, about their mind share; no pitch | 2.3-2.4 |
| Ask for the coffee date | "Would you be open to discussing it?" | 2.7 |
| Answer "What are you trying to sell me?" | "Apologies. The way we work, we find the copy, the salesperson, everything, even the leads..." | 2.7 |
| Restart a partner who went quiet | "Ask them something about their baby." | 2.8 |
| Find the gap on the coffee date | "What do you guys want to sell more of?" | 2.11 |
| Size the problem with them | "Let me get my calculator out." | 2.11 |
| Propose the test | "Can I send five or 10 emails to your list and get the offer dialed in first?" | 3.1 |
| Pick what to sell first | "The easiest thing to sell is going to be something they've already sold before..." | 3.2 |
| Lay out your terms | "Let me tell you all the pain-in-the-a** stuff about working with me." | 3.3 |
| Talk percentages | "I don't want to make this about percentages." / "50% of a million, or 80% of 100,000, or 100% of zero?" | 3.4 |
| Set an agreement with a date | "I'm going to send you a real simple agreement. I'll get it to you by noon tomorrow." | 3.5 |
| Handle a missed agreement | "We both agreed to Wednesday..." | 3.5 |
| Grow a test that worked | "We sent five emails and made 50 grand..." | 3.8 |
| End a test that didn't | "I wanted to hit it out of the ballpark for you, but..." | 3.8 |
| Find what they're really buying | "Nobody buys the deliverable." | 4.1 |
| Open with present pain | "You must be able to point to their present pain." | 4.2 |
| Kill an objection in the offer | "We never have to outrun the bear. We just have to outrun what they're already doing." | 4.6 |
| Build the offer from what they already do | "So if somebody buys your thing and emails you, how long will you answer them for?" | 4.8 |
| Write a T1 | An invitation with no link, built on their currency | 5.2 |
| Start a T2 | "Can you tell me a little bit about your situation?" | 5.4 |
| Qualify without shame | "...would you help me help you?" | 5.5 |
| Write the T3 | The 411, desire bullets, the blunt FAQ, the IVQ, "just reply back: I'm in" | 5.6 |
| Read a T1 that got no replies | "...you haven't found the right currency yet." | 5.7 |
| Name tension in a conversation | "I'm feeling some pressure here. I don't want there to be any pressure. Where have I gone wrong?" | 6.1 |
| Move someone aside kindly | "Sounds like you're just getting to know who I am." | 6.1 |
| Take the shiny off | "Now let me see if I can talk you out of it." | 6.2 |
| Hold a term | "I have a rule..." plus a choice: now or back burner | 6.3 |
| Answer a short putt | "Are you ready to rock and roll, or do you have a question for me?" | 6.4 |
| Reply to "I'm in" | "Right now we're pre-enrolling... Would you like me to send you the link?" | 6.5 |
| Reply to "Sure, send the link" | "We don't send out payment links or invoices unless you're 100% sure you're in." | 6.6 |
| Follow up | Built on their currency; never "Did you decide to buy?" | 6.7 |
| Close the file | "Should I just close the file on you?" | 6.7 |
| Isolate a question | "Are you saying you're in if you can get the answer to that?" | 6.8 |
| Sell to new buyers | "Thank you so much for buying... Would you like to hear about it?" | 7.2 |
| Present a payment plan | "You just say it's $220 a month for 12 months. That's it." | 7.3 |
| Offer pay-in-full after the yes | "We have a pay-in-full discount, would you like to hear about it?" | 7.3 |
| Answer "nobody will pay 10 months" | "That's complete thinking and not data." | 7.3 |
| Raise a price the list knows | "That apple was a really good value at 500..." | 7.4 |
| Give an evergreen offer a reason | "I've set aside the time to build two lead gen funnels next month." | 7.5 |
| Invite a past client to continue | "We did great getting you A and B. Our real challenge now... Are you considering continuing on with me...?" | 7.6 |
| Add a channel | "I like to change channels before I like to change offers." | 7.7 |
| Find new angles for the same offer | Who, What, When, Where, Why, How | 7.8 |
| Open as a junior tapper | "Hey, I'm giving Brandon a hand today..." | 8.2 |
| Brief a copywriter | Symptom, metaphor, wisdom, segue | 8.4 |
| Split a new asset with a partner | "Do you guys want to do it yourself?" | 8.6 |
A.2Glossary
| Term | Meaning | Where |
|---|---|---|
| 5 Ps | People (the parade), Product, Process, Perspective, Practice | 0.8 |
| 60 / 30 / 10 | 60% of sales success is the list, 30% the offer, 10% the copy | 0.8 |
| 100%-sure tap | No payment link unless they're 100% sure they're in | 6.6 |
| 10 of hearts | The one missing card you bring: a virtual sales team with a process | 1.8 |
| 411 | The opening of the T3: what, when, where, with whom | 5.6 |
| A and B / X and Y / Z | In the going-steady T1: the result you got together / the next challenge / what they can do and be | 7.6 |
| Alert list / waitlist | Where sold-out prospects wait for the next opening | 6.7 |
| Avatar | One type of buyer; there are usually about three | 8.3 |
| Back burner / front burner | Later kind of thing / now kind of thing | 2.11 |
| Backend agency | Working only on the assets a business already has but isn't using | 8.6 |
| Binary qualifier | A yes/no fact they can point at (500 opens, accepts insurance) | 4.9 |
| Brain-gasm | The small aha every email must contain | 8.4 |
| Build a door | A pre-enrollment phase that makes the payment link a favor | 6.5 |
| CAP | Child, Adult, Parent: the three voices an offer speaks to | 4.7 |
| Castle | Travis's small paid group for people already running Beamer deals | 8.7 |
| Chooser | The one who takes the risk and makes the rules | 0.4 |
| Clone / cloned asset | A segment run as its own profit center, often by someone else | 8.5 |
| Close the file | The last-resort tap that leads with no | 6.7 |
| Coffee date / first date / going steady / marriage | Sizing the opportunity / the test / the ongoing deal / deeper work | 2.1, 7.6 |
| Crock-Pot / microwave group | A long-term group / one spun up for one topic | 8.5 |
| Currency | What the prospect said they want, in their words; every tap swings back to it | 5.4 |
| Dark mojo | What buyers really want, beyond what they say in surveys | 4.3, 4.8 |
| Doctor stance | Good bedside manner, no shenanigans, a line out the door | 6.1 |
| Elastic gap | The water full of sharks between Hell Island and Heaven Island | 4.6 |
| Feminine / masculine mojo | Attraction, one-to-many / reaching out one-to-one | 7.6 |
| Flow | A partner's ongoing sales: new buyers every day | 1.8, 7.2 |
| Found money | Revenue the partner would never have had without you | 1.6 |
| Golf course | Pre-selling (the drive) moves the ball; selling (the putt) taps it in | 0.9 |
| Hand raiser | Someone who replies yes to a T1 | 5.2 |
| Hell Island / Heaven Island | Where they are now / where they want to be | 4.2 |
| Hot button / mind share | The topic they think about many times a day | 2.3 |
| IVQ | The investment section of the T3 | 5.6 |
| Junior / senior tapper | Scripted copy-paste work / runs the standard T2 and trains the next junior | 8.2 |
| Little Travis | The small, fearful voice whose worries stop you | 0.7 |
| Marilyn Monroe vs Danny DeVito dollars | Pure found money vs dollars already spoken for | 0.6 |
| McDonaldize | Standardize so nobody has to be a genius | 8.3 |
| Micro commitment | The small first yes ("I'm in" at the monthly price) | 7.3 |
| Millionaire math | Payment-first pricing, pay-in-full after the yes | 7.3 |
| Moving parade | People in motion right now: new members, subscribers, customers | 7.1 |
| Offer Multiplier | Slicing one offer by Who, What, When, Where, Why, How | 7.8 |
| Offer T | Old plan vs new plan on one page | 4.5 |
| Orchard | Your sphere and shortlist of possible partners | 1.7 |
| Out of range / long putt / short putt | Not ready, don't convince / warm, timing off / ready with a question | 6.4 |
| Pre-enrollment / official / ending enrollment | The three phases of every opening | 6.5 |
| Present pain | Something happening now they can point a finger at | 4.2 |
| Producer | Someone who arranges the script, actors and investors instead of doing it all | 0.5, 8.6 |
| Rainmaker | An older multi-email campaign type | 5.2 |
| Reactivation | A thank-you campaign to people who used to buy | 3.2 |
| Ripe fruit | The follow-up order, from "I'm in, not paid" back to unanswered T2s | 6.7 |
| RFM | Recency, frequency, monetary value: the easiest buyers bought recently, often and big | 1.4 |
| Second hole / second helping | The next offer to someone who just bought | 7.1-7.2 |
| Sharks | Objections, killed in the offer before the tapper | 4.6 |
| Shine the flashlight | Build the offer from what they already deliver | 4.8 |
| Special edition | A named reason plus a real capacity limit for an offer you sell all the time | 7.5 |
| Sublist group | A new group for one offer, filled from the main group or list | 8.5 |
| Sugar (sh*t into sugar) | Remove what sucks about buying; then add what helps them get what they're really buying | 7.8 |
| T1 / T2 / T3 | Hand raiser / qualifier / the offer with the price | 5.0 |
| T3A / T3B | Split-test versions of the T3, changing one variable | 7.3-7.4 |
| Tap / tapper | A short, personal message that moves someone one step / the person who sends them | 6.0 |
| TIMER | Time, Identity, Money, Energy, Reputation: the five sharks, or the five kinds of value | 4.6, 7.8 |
| Trash-can asset | An asset the owner isn't using, often a direct mail list | 8.6 |
| Triangle of insight | Symptom, metaphor, wisdom (plus the segue): the email brief | 8.4 |
| Trigger point | The event that makes someone reach out now | 2.5, 4.9 |
| Virtual sales team | What you call tappers when you talk to partners | 7.2, 8.2 |
| Widen the yes hole | Make it easier to say yes, mainly with a small monthly price | 7.3 |
| Yellow light syndrome | Speeding through tension instead of naming it | 6.1 |
A.3Source index
Every section ends with the calls it draws on. This index works the other way: pick a call, see where it lives in the guide.
| Code | Call | Stages it feeds |
|---|---|---|
| 5P | Pow Wow #1: The 5 Ps of Collecting Money | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 |
| FAP | Fast Action Plan | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
| PPM | Partner Picking Mojo (Pow Wow #2) | 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 |
| BQA | Beamer Q&A | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 |
| BPW | Beamer Pow Wow (Friday Q&A) | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 |
| DPT | Don't Propose a Deal, Propose a Test | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8 |
| COA | Cold Outreach & Prospecting AMA | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 |
| TP | Trigger Points | 2, 4, 5, 7 |
| WOW | Wax On Wax Off (T3 Call #1) | 0, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
| T3P | The T3 Process (Call #2) | 0-8 |
| FUT | Follow-Up Taps (T3 Call #3) | 0, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 |
| ATR | Advanced Tapping for Rainmakers | 0, 3, 6 |
| ST3 | Social T3 Case Study | 4, 5, 6, 8 |
| OT | The Offer T | 4 |
| INF | Inflation Is Here, YAY! | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 |
| KIS | Bonus Call: Keep It Simple, Steer by Data | 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 |
| MM | Millionaire Math | 0, 7 |
| SHC | Second Helping Campaign | 1, 3, 5, 7, 8 |
| OMM | Offer Multiplier Method | 4, 5, 7, 8 |
| BT1 | The Best T1 Ever | 4, 7 |
Where the calls disagree: look for the Variation boxes. They sit in the stage where the difference matters and explain why each call teaches it the way it does, so you can pick the version that fits your situation.